Songo or Mozambique ?

[Anonimo]

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR

[JohnnyConga]

I have the album that i sent to David...I titled it under Julito, because it is a 'bootleg" recording he did in the 60's in NYC...the cover has a picture of "Black Chango" on it and it is definitely Julito and his "Grupo de Guiro"...he is singing and playing on it..as David can attest to.. "JC" Johnny Conga PS the album says "Santeria Haitiana" and there is nothing on this recording that is Haitian...

[davidpenalosa]

Hi Johnny,
I'm too lazy to go rifling through my boxes of vinyl right now, but I think some of those cuts ended up on an obscure Santeria record. I'm certain that the instrumental guaguanco did because I used to listen to it a lot. On the other hand, I had never heard that instrumental iyesa until you sent me a copy of the record.
-David

[niallgregory]

seems to be impossible to find ! cant find any info whatsoever online .you couldnt stick up somewhere as a download could you seen as its not available to buy anywhere .cheers .Niall ..

[casaet]

This thread gets very interesting with the first of the two Yutube links that Leedy posted here. I immediately suspected Youruba-Lucumi, and it is no secret that Pello knew that tradition better than most. If he called that thing Mozambique, and gave it a new form, thats allright with me. Some people did not like it, but who cares. It took me 24 hours to figure out what he was doing, and now it would be interesting to hear some comments on this.
casaet

[davidpenalosa]

The first youtube clip is from a record Pello made of traditional conga de comparsas. The second clip features Pello's invention mozambique.

In many cases determining the particular ethnic origins of Afro-Cuban rhythms created on the island can be a very subjective matter. Since the Yoruba were one of the last African ethnic groups to arrive in Cuba, their music (particularly the bata repertoire), has some of the most preserved drum systems on the island. It is natural therefore, that many make the mistake of looking to the transplanted Yoruba music as the "mother lode," as the ultimate source of Cuba's musical hybrids.

Congolese music has been on the island much longer and has therefore been "Creolized" more than the Yoruba music. Congolese songs often have Spanish words mixed in. The opposite is true as well however; Congolese (Bantu)-based words make up the mainstay of Cuban musical terms; conga, timba, tambo, bombo, mambo, etc. In some circumstances the word congo is used as the name for the comparsa rhythm.

The onbeat/offbeat motif of the conga bell is similar to bell patterns used in Bantu music in Africa and in Brazil. It also has similarities to the bell pattern used in the Brazilian Carnaval music partido alto.

As to whether there is a Yoruba influence in either the conga or mozambique, I would say maybe in the mozambique, specifically the two-drum part which closely resembles the okonkolo and itotele melody for the last movement of Osain (often used to accompany Obatala songs). Also, one of the mozambique bombo parts is essentially identical to the lead drum part for the Yoruba-based iyesa rhythm. It also resembles the lead drum part used in an arrangement of the Cuban-Congolese rhythm makuta.
-David

[davidpenalosa]

Here's another take on the question "songo or mozambique?" The answer: "yes!"

Directly below is a songo timbale/kit ride. One hand plays the main beats while the other plays an offbeat pattern. Below that is the mozambique timbales bell part, which is played with one hand. The two patterns are identical except for the stroke on beat 3 in the songo pattern. I've written the patterns in 2-3 clave.

. . X . . X . X . X X . . X . X songo
X . . . X . . . X . . . X . . .


X . X . X X . X . X X . X X . X NY mozambique

[Thomas Altmann]

Here's another take on the question "songo or mozambique?" The answer: "yes!"
. . X . . X . X . X X . . X . X songo
X . . . X . . . X . . . X . . .

X . X . X X . X . X X . X X . X NY mozambique

Ingenous! Great finding.

Thanks for sharing, David.

[davidpenalosa]

Glad you appreciate that Thomas. I just remembered that Kim Atkinson used the offbeat portion of that songo timbales ride as an extra bell part in his songo/mozambique (Pello's version) fusion arranged for samba bateria. This invento is featured in Kim's Mozambique v. 1 instructional DVD. We were jamming at a party and for some reason I started playing the offbeat portion of the songo pattern as a bell part. Kim liked it so much, he asked me to play it on the DVD. Yet another, albeit invented, songo—mozambique connection.
-David

[JohnnyConga]

Here is a young Ritchie Flores playing with Eddie Palmieri...who doesn't play any real form of the Mozambique during the tune...but he takes one HELLUVA conga solo... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmtGvJzVczM "JC" Johnny Conga

[JohnnyConga]

DAFNIS PRIETO explaining and playing Mozambique on drumset and congas.."JC" Johnny Conga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp9lBqecViE

[alabubba]

DAFNIS PRIETO explaining and playing Mozambique on drumset and congas.."JC" Johnny Conga

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp9lBqecViE

Wow great rhythms, thanks for the link JC. Working on them now - they are calling me in . In case someone else wants to learn these rhythms, below is my worksheet for writing down Dafnis Prieto's vocalizations and sticking for the basic unadorned rhythms (spelling my own, of course):

1st Drummer Part:

SA PA TA TUM - BA TUM BA KI BI DI [L R L R L R L R L R] [s s s O s O s o o o]

SA PA TA CON - GA TA TUM - BA TUM BA KING - KING - KING [R L R L R L R L R L R L R] [s s s s s s O s O s o o o]

2nd Drummer Part:

SA KA TU TUM – PA - KA KI BI TUM - PAK KA TA KA [R L R R R L R L R R L R L] [s b O O o o o o O s t t t]

Please let me know if you find a mistake in my interpretation, it was a bit tricky for me to work out from the youtube video.