Interesting Drum ... Old Debate

[BMac]

I found an interesting drum on ebay. Its condition stirs an old debate ... but first the drum.

I'm not at all familiar with this type of drum. My attempt at describing or even naming the drum may only misdirect your comments toward my lack of understanding of the history of the instrument and such. So let's skip that ... I am ignorant of the history of the instrument and of the culture of its origin. For whatever it's worth, I spent about half an hour reading stuff online about such drums. There are youtube videos of these drums being played. But yes, I know little of such drums. I've uploaded several pics from the ad. There are several more pics available with the ad. Here is the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Candombe-Tambor-Rep ... 4ceed5172a

Here is what can be said ... the thing has an alma. I wonder if it was installed by the original maker or if it was later installed. I see wooden blocks holding it from below. I don't know what opposes the blocks, if anything, to trap the alma. It may just be the angle of the staves ... which are quite angled as you will see.

Let's move on to the debate.
I have a theory: That alma cracked that drum.
That drum would have been better off if allowed to flex a bit ... deform if you will.
But the wood was denied any flexibility ... denied any fluxuations in shape as humidity and temperature varied.
The wood and steel have different thermal expansion properties and such ... and ... CRACK ... another drum cracked by its alma.

Let the debate begin ... or is that continue?

Cheers,
BMac

[niallgregory]

Very nice looking drum apart from the cracks .It says LP ? I presume that means the company ! Had no idea they made candombe drums , thats if they do . I doubt it some how .

[KING CONGA]

One thing is clear, that this drum is fairly new, you can see this clearly by looking at the inside, together with this comes the strong possibility that the wood was not fully cured when built, uncured wood on a conga is definitely not a good combination as there is a very high probability for cracks.

P.S. Here is a picture that I came across some time back, obviously the same type of drums.

[Isaac]

Perhaps this should be another thread in Miscellaneous Drums.

It's worth fixing if someone wants to explore the Candombe rhythms or use in any other creative way.
They can be pretty light for wearing while parading...
It's part of the set of three, like many African drum families. The Piano (fattest low) the Repique, and the smaller Chico.
This is a Candombe (pronounced CanDomBAY) drum of Afro-Uruguayan folklore. (Not to be confused with Candomble with an "L" from Brasil)
It's a wonderful clave based music played in parades in Uruguay. It's also influenced their popular music.
They uses one hand and one stick or mallete...except sometimes the Chico is just hands - like a quinto.
Candombe can be likened to being the "samba" of Uruguay. A top Uruguayan band ( OPA ) once
backed up Airto Moreira and incorporated the Candombe in their songs. Look for
the 70's candombe/fusion group OPA. I recently saw a nice use of a larger bass Candombe by Manolo Badrena
as part of his eclectic conga/drumset percussion setup. I think there's only one Candombe group in the
New York area led by ex-OPA founder Hugo Fattoruso.

Here's some samples on Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBdK576o ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVfTTqME ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TM-Gd1gS ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSruVMMP ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29iiFGs2nj8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhxuz8HLpN0&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFWN83tIinw&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bYl_h1v ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCk9lplv ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKMxBbPf ... re=related

[Tonio]

Thanks Mac and Isaac !!
I won't be part of the alma debate, but I see what you're sayin'.
Especially Isaac for the history of Candombe. I see the similarity of Samba, but man carrying those big wonkin' drums must be work out It has a liking to Haitian rhythms, too. But the call /response-time push is really like samba.

Great stuff .

T

[deerskins]

I'll jump in on this one:

Yes, absolutely, the alma cracked the drum, that is obvious.
But, I do believe that the wood was not totally dry when the alma was installed...or, it was installed during humid months.
If I was going to install an alma where I live, I would wait until the coldest part of winter when it is freezing outside for weeks and I am running dry heat at home. That is when the wood will be shrunk the most. I have seen the bands on my congas tight in summer and loose in winter. But, even if you install the alma when the wood is totally dry, the wood changes during its life.
I have seen djembe with nice tight rings, even after being a few years old. Ten years later, the rings were too big...meaning that the drum still shrunk over the years. I really think that wood is always changing as it ages. I see the value on having an alma but I'm not sold on the idea that it is always needed. And, I would worry about it cracking if it was installed during hot/humid months.

[ABAKUA]

Candombe drums are incredibly light, nothing like congas. They need to carried while playing for block after block during the parades or 'llamadas' (calls).

I am invited to play in the comparsas every year for the Uruguayan independance day. Numbers range from 40 to 60 drummers normally, its great stuff. Throw in the dancers and other characters of the candombe culture and you have close to 100 people involved.
I can play all three drums, though I will normally play either Repique (soloing drum) or the Piano (Largest of the 3 drums, call & response base).

Here are a few pics of my 'Chico' which one of my conga students (an excellent candombe drummer) gave to me as a present.
It is made of Brazilian Pine wood, the skin is from a young male horse.
The drum absolutely screams.

Notice the inner shot, it also has an alma. You really need to know your drums in order to install almas when making drums. Its not just a piece of round steel you shove into any type of wood drum at any time of year in any sort of aged wood to keep it out of round as many would think. An alma will not cause a drum to crack, but rather the drum will crack as a result of its environment and how it affects the wood etc. If one thing was done wrong, being premature or wet wood, wrong season, etc the drum will crack as it copes with the environment around it.

[BMac]

Warning: The following remarks regard only construction mechanics irrespective of music and culture.
It looks like Abakua's alma is installed similarly to the one in the ebay ad. Several blocks trap the alma from below. But against what? Does the alma just float there? If you shake the drum, does it rattle? If you removed the head, could the alma be lifted out through the top of the drum ... or would some squeezing of the alma be needed? Y'all saw my theory that the angle of the staves is so great in these Candombe drums, that the alma is trapped from above by just the angled staves. So perhaps the alma is installed by dropping it into the upside down drum, allowing it to settle where its outer diameter contacts the tapering inner diameter of the drum, and then installing the blocks to trap the alma's position. Oh wait ... the alma might have to be in the drum before the staves are glued together if my installation theory is right ... hmmm ... that seems wrong.

Oh well ... almas ... who needs 'em?

Cheers,
BMac

[bongosnotbombs]

I'm pretty sure the almas need to be placed in the drums just before it is assemble and glued since the circumference of the alma is larger than the circumference of the openings in the drum. The alma is wedged between the walls of the smaller circumference of the top opening and the blocks keep the alma from falling out.

Drums with almas crack, drums without almas crack; drums with bands crack and drums without bands crack; drums with bands and almas crack and drums without bands and almas crack.

[RitmoBoricua]

But I do not think almas and bands are installed to prevent cracking. Almas to keep roundness and bands to keep wood staves from coming apart. Is a fact of life that under certain conditions wood will crack no matter what.

[Tonio]

Drums with almas crack, drums without almas crack; drums with bands crack and drums without bands crack; drums with bands and almas crack and drums without bands and almas crack.

LOL was gonna say BNB is on crack , but I won't

Alma, malma, crack this , crack that, yeah any drum can crack.

Crack mac, its not that much of debate, almas are there to keep it round... or so they say


T

[Tonio]

Sorry, I'm feelin'kinda jittery, maybe I'm on crack

T

[bongosnotbombs]

Good one Tonio

[KING CONGA]

I'm pretty sure the almas need to be placed in the drums just before it is assemble and glued since the circumference of the alma is larger than the circumference of the openings in the drum. The alma is wedged between the walls of the smaller circumference of the top opening and the blocks keep the alma from falling out.

With all due respect BNB, I don't believe that this is entirely correct. I am drawn to this conclusion by the newly instaled alma on my requena, see attached image.

,

[bongosnotbombs]

I'm pretty sure the almas need to be placed in the drums just before it is assemble and glued since the circumference of the alma is larger than the circumference of the openings in the drum. The alma is wedged between the walls of the smaller circumference of the top opening and the blocks keep the alma from falling out.

With all due respect BNB, I don't believe that this is entirely correct. I am drawn to this conclusion by the newly instaled alma on my requena, see attached image.

,

You may be right King Conga.

I'm referring to the drums in the photo, it looks like the alma is pushed up right to the edge with the blocks supporting it from below. I don't see any screws in the candomble alma.

If an alma is installed after the drum is made, as a modification like yours, it would need to be exactly the same circumference as the drum at the bearing edge like the one you show on your Requena. If you look at your Skin on Skin's the alma is installed about 1.5" lower than the bearing edge and is a larger circumference than the circumference at the bearing edge. I don't think those could be dropped in from the top like I assume your Requena's was. It looks like the Requena alma could be taken out by removing the screws. It kind of looks like there is a gap between the drum and the alma on the left side of your photo as well. And what is that white substance, some sort of filler or or adhesive?

The only ways I can think of getting an alma in a drum like an SOS or the candomble drums is either have it pre-made and installed during the glue up process, or I guess you could weld it together inside the drum after it was glued.