Pioneers on Afro and Caribbean Percussion

[Johnny Conga]

I may not be an innovator myself but in 1966 I was trying to play with 3 congas in Salsa bands and they would never let me do that. They would say "nobody plays 3 congas in a Salsa band"!. It wasn't until the mid 70's when 3 congas in a Salsa band became a mainstay in Salsa bands......One of the first I believe was "Little Johnny Rivero" with Sonora Poncena....JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[zaragemca]

The history of incorporating a third Conga (at that time) was to place the Quinto in the middle to facilitate the slap which was more harder to obtain in the Conga and Tumba.I don't know what they would not let you to play with three Congas(the only back part is to carry on).



Edited By zaragemca on 1076618893

[Raymond]

Johnny,

I second that, "Little Johnny" Rivero was perhaps the first one to play three congas in a salsa band (and made it a standard. I think playing standing up in salsa is owed to him and perhaps Jimmy Morales too). However, Barreto did play more than the standard two congas in many of his gigs....

Again, this is a hard subject. An innovator is not necessarily the first one. Sometimes the first one goes unnoticed. I believe the innovator goes further. Innovator in my opiniion, although it does not fit the definition of the word, is somebody that besides establishing or doing something new he/she influenced others and made what he did an accepted standard. Tito Puente is obviously there......

How many innovators in percussion? Lots of them....

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1076621475

[zaragemca]

Brother Raymond,I don't have the information when Little Johnny Rivero started using three congas,Tito Puente is there for bringing the Vibrophone in to Genre,But I'm the first to point out that in didn't set up a trend,or standard,there is not a lot of Salsa Bands playing that instrument.Barreto,himself said that he was influenced by Mongo Santamaria when he observed Mongo playing at a Festival.



Edited By zaragemca on 1076695599

[Johnny Conga]

Zaragemca I know you weren't raised in New York City so I wouldn't expect you to know all these Latin Vibe Players, from New York City.
Tito Puente
Tito Rodriguez
Orlando Marin
Louie Ramirez
Bobby Pauneto
Ricardo Marrero
Phil Diaz
Bernard Williams
Oscar Garcia
Louis Sanchez
Harvey Averne
Pete Terrace ....and they were all influenced by Tito Puente....JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[RitmoBoricua]

Zaragemca I know you weren't raised in New York City so I wouldn't expect you to know all these Latin Vibe Players, from New York City.
Tito Puente
Tito Rodriguez
Orlando Marin
Louie Ramirez
Bobby Pauneto
Ricardo Marrero
Phil Diaz
Bernard Williams
Oscar Garcia
Louis Sanchez
Harvey Averne
Pete Terrace ....and they were all influenced by Tito Puente....JC JOHNNY CONGA....

Do not forget Cal Tjader, although not from NYC was influenced by TP on a trip to NYC with George Shearing. Also on the subject of pioneers of afro/caribbean percussion we have to give Ray Barretto his props, before he was doing the afrocaribbean thing on the congas he was paving the way for many "tumbadores" to come in the jazz and rock field. Barretto is probably in more jazz recording than any other "tumbador". Is Ray Barretto a pioneer, Sure He Is. People like Willie Bobo, Kako, Willie Rodriguez, Humberto Morales, Uba Nieto, Cortijo, Jose Mangual Sr, Ray Romero, Manny Oquendo and many others are pioneers too. My two cents.

[Johnny Conga]

Definativamente Ritmo B..All props to Mr. Hard Hands himself. I forgot about my idol Cal Tjader but I was talking about the New York cats that were influenced by TP. Yes when Tjader saw Puente playing the vibes in a Latin setting he was changed for life. His other mentor on vibes was Emil Richards, who was the original vibist for George Shearing while Tjader played drumset......JC JOHNNY CONGA.....

[RitmoBoricua]

Definativamente Ritmo B..All props to Mr. Hard Hands himself. I forgot about my idol Cal Tjader but I was talking about the New York cats that were influenced by TP. Yes when Tjader saw Puente playing the vibes in a Latin setting he was changed for life. His other mentor on vibes was Emil Richards, who was the original vibist for George Shearing while Tjader played drumset......JC JOHNNY CONGA.....

I knew you were talking about the vibist from NYC. In my mind lots of NYC percussionists from your generation are also pioneers and some of the best well-rounded percussionists you can find anywhere take for example Milton Cardona or Jerry Gonzalez able to play rumba, son, plena, bomba, oriza, toques, brazilian music, jibaro, jazz, cumbia, etc. To me you guys from that generation are pioneers too, you were able to implement onto your playing lots and lots of influences and styles, you guys expanded the latin percussion field and only in NYC this could be possible, "The Big Melting Pot". So my kudos to you guys too.

[Johnny Conga]

Yea Milton, Jerry,Me, Gene Golden all from the same generation. I knew Jerry when he couldn' play congas, and Milton had taken lessons from my first teacher Hank Fields, who was a student of Armando Peraza and the "hand over hand" style of Peraza. We often floated through the same bands back in the late 60's and early 70's. I got taken out of the city by the Government in 1968 to serve in Vietnam or my career may have started a little earlier than later. But we come from what i call "the first school" of the "ol skool". Our mentors were and are-Mongo Julito-Fransisco-Tata-Patato. these are the guys we saw almost everyday in New York. Well not Tata but you know what I mean. I was like a little pup following Mongo around the city to see him play. The old Metropole cafe on Broadway and 48 was where I first saw him, and I was to young to go in but we could watch him play through the window, cause he played behind the bar on a riser, it was wierd but I just loved it. As you know Milton, Jerry, myself and the others have moved on with our careers and continue to "carry the tradition" on our backs. It's very important we do not forget the "lineage" of the drum and it's tradicion.....Peace and always Congas....JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[zaragemca]

Brothers Johnny,and RitmoBoricua this is not the situation of mentioning every percussionists which came in to Playing Cuban Music,but the ones which by their action did something for thr first time or create a pattern,becouse if I going to mention all the percussionists which in Cuba play this music I have to take at least two days.(This is about innovation in the music).Neither I said that the rest of percussionists are n't good musicians.



Edited By zaragemca on 1077050227

[Johnny Conga]

Sometimes a story is just that, a story. WE are all familiar with the contributions the Cuban musicians have made. But there are others as well. By far I am not in that category as "innovator"......Just part of my life's story, that's all.. JC JOHNNY CONGA..... :;):

[RitmoBoricua]

I am pretty sure there are lots of innovators and pioneers that never got credit for and in the other hand you have the ones that got credit and do not deserve it. Es Todo Parte Del Juego De La Vida, La Vida Es Una Tombola!

[RayBoogie]

Not to get off the topic, JC can you explain the "hand over hand" technique Armando Pereaza does? I never heard of this term before.

[Johnny Conga]

See you can still learn something from us ol fodey dodeys.."Hand over Hand" in spanish is called "mano del trapo" (rag hand). it's where your open hands turn over each other while playing the conga drum. It's hard to explain without seeing it. If you can ever get to see Armando with Santana you will see the "hand over hand" style that he has. It is an approach that I have only seen Armando do while playing the conga. If I ever hook this camera up I could show you, but until then, find a video from the 80's when Armando was with Santana and you will see what I mean.....ok you know how when you clasp your hands and you take your thumbs and turn them over each other ,revolve one around another,that is the same motion only with your hands...maybe that will do it....JC JOHNNY CONGA.....

[RayBoogie]

I think I understand. Thanks. This is the reason I enjoy this forum "I always learn something new." Kudos to you JC...