Martin Cohen 1960's Bongos on Ebay right now

[Ratatata]

I found these on ebay just a few minutes ago. I won't buy them, since I already have some vintage mahogany Cosmic Percussion bongos.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0315584044

Good luck to anyone who wins them on here.

[Whopbamboom]

I'd bid, but I'm boycotting eBay permanently. Nice looking bongos though.

[Ratatata]

I'd bid, but I'm boycotting eBay permanently.

Why are you boycotting ebay?

[Mike]

Ratata,
What is risky at ebay sometime is this: You might not get what you pay, if you get it at all,
buying percussion instruments unseen means there might be hidden (voluntarily or not)
flaws like cracks or something else the seller did not mention.
And the prices soar up disproportionally at times . we all know howthis works,
that is why I CAN undersand WBB´s point of view.

That having been been said, you can be very lucky too and go for a grab, especially
when a treasure is put into the wrong category or incorrectly labelled. (e.g. "konga" instead
of "conga" once helped me to a decent Meinl conga for about 50 $ at German ebay!)
And there are also many reliable sellers around.

But still it is hard to distinguish good from bad ebayers.
Do ask lots of question, ask for photos and details, and problems can get sorted out
in most cases.
I once bought at ebay a similar magnificent 1970s LP bongo set from Steven from this board, but without knowing him yet. I was not disappointed, but have been a very lucky man with my LP bongó.

BTW the item description here http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0315584044 is not too bad, it sounds honest at least..

Regards
Mike

[Whopbamboom]

Naw, that's not why I stopped buying and selling on eBay. It's all the changes that they have made over the last 12 months that made for a very hostile trading environment. I and THOUSANDS of other users have permanently left them. And eBay stock has gone from a high of 45 bucks per share to a low of 11 bucks a share (it actually rebounded to almost 13 bucks a share this week though) in one single year because they are driving it into the ground. It won't be around much longer, or at least not like we've known it to be in the past.

[Thomas Altmann]

Obviously, the hembra is a later "Second Generation" model that LP made in the beginning of the 1980's. So this is a composite set. Also, what made the early (First Generation) bongos play so great were goat skins (as opposed to calf).

I have heard that the very first LP bongos were solid bodies, carved from a single piece of wood each. Can anybody verify this?

Thomas

[Mike]

Obviously, the hembra is a later "Second Generation" model that LP made in the beginning of the 1980's. So this is a composite set. Also, what made the early (First Generation) bongos play so great were goat skins (as opposed to calf).

You are right,Thomas!
I just wonder if a set composed of two different shells is necessarily good, bad, or something in between?
Of course, as a collector´s item this might not be good, but as long as it sounds good?

At least you come across those mixed sets every now and then.

Wow, I did not know that Martin Cohen´s early bongos had goat skin!

[bongosnotbombs]

It might sound good, it might not, they are on ebay and you can't check them out.

I'm a little skeptical.

It is a mismatched pair for sure, and that is not mentioned in the description. I think they have been
refinished as well. The shells look like different woods to me and there is nothing to back up the seller's
claims about these drums being from the 60's and the "some of the first ever made".

This is a photo of some vintage LP's owned for 32 years by a member of the bongo group.

and this is the Ebay set

[Mike]

BnB,
this set looks like the real deal indeed. The rusty hooks convey heavy use
on sweaty thighs and I believe it sounds great
I might be a bit dull, for I did not really understand: Do you own this bongó now, i.e. have you bought it from a bongogroup member?

[bongosnotbombs]

Hey Mike,
I don't own this set, it is from a bongogroup member. I wish I did, it looks great.
Look how tight the wood grain is.

There should be an image of the crack showing how minor it was and how professionally repaired.

If this set is really what the seller says it is it could reach $500-$600. If it's not, much, much less.

I think it pays to be skeptical when buying vintage drums from ebay...
....and this gives me a chance to promote Isaac's excellent article on the subject!


by Isaac Gutwilik
Tradicion Percussion / Percussionist / Instrument Design /
Authorized Rep. JCR Percussion

Once in a while a rare percussion treasure can be found on ebay. A lot of sellers use the word "vintage" to attract sales to their item. This does not necessarily mean that much. If it's Vintage it should have an old label shown, or some of the identifiable unique hardware designs. Some of the older pieces may have cracks and are in bad need of new heads. Consider the real costs of these repairs. Be sure to ask a few questions. If you get no answer, stay away. If you're handy with some carpentry skills, that's a big plus. A good repair project can be very rewarding and even therapeutic for some individuals with the proper tools and workspace. Be wary of sellers with no feedback or too many negative feedbacks. Sometimes good older percussion items end up being sold by people who know nothing about what they're selling. (They often incorrectly refer to them as Congos or large "African" Bongos) They may be sitting on a treasure.

Here are some questions to ask: for bongos, does the hardware still fit? Wood will always shrink over time, rendering the hardware or bands too loose. Replacement lugs are easy to obtain to replace rusted or abused old ones. Head diameters are often incorrectly measured, for example, and the age & type of wood may be unknown. Be sure to ask about cracks. If the crack is on a seam line, it can be repaired with the proper glues and clamps. A crack that runs at an angle however may be more of a problem, but any problem can be addressed if you're able to do it or pay someone else with experience. For steel bands, welding may be required. There may also be a need for an internal steel alma ring to reinforce and put a drum back in "round" if it's been warped. Cracks in other areas can be dealt with but the sound of the drum may never be the same. In any case, always ask the questions beforehand. It usually takes a minimum of 7 years of solid welding experience for a welder to artistically
repair bongos or congas. It's more challenging than the wood repairs. Many older fiberglass congas may also be
considered vintage. Fiberglass repair kits are cheap, come with easy instructions and available at Lowes or Home Depot, etc.

For vintage bells, similar questions should be asked - any cracks, rust, does the mounting bracket still work? For timbales - are they still in round? are the lugs lubricated or stripped? Are there undamaged skins? Very important - is there a stand? A new stand can cost 1/2 the price of an entirely new set ! Why people buy or sell timbales without stands I'll never understand. Each set has it's own specific mounting system, so you'll be searching for a particular stand which may be next to impossible to find. Older Timbales also had no mounting brackets for bells, so you'll need to get
an attachable mounting rod.

If a piece has no cracks, investing in a new set of skins like calf, steer or the best - top of the line imported mule skins will elevate any drum' sound. Some humid climates or working situations may call for a synthetic head...which isn't a vintage sound but very practical on the road. Many pros have more than one set just for different performance styles or performance spaces, or recording. The skin is a major part of your instrument's sound and old skins usually will sound lifeless. Rest assured, the mules are not killed for skinning, but culled from the old retired work animals which are abundantly used in traditional mountain farming regions. They are available on a very limited basis only twice a year. . . . Thicker skins also enhance fiberglass congas, eliminating some of the ringing tones. The newer stock asian water buffalo skins on todays mass produced congas & bongos may be OK for beginners, but are not the way to go for a true vintage sound. The sounds they produce are not the authentic ones, and will not do justice to a wood handcrafted instrument. For an authentic sound experience, new players should listen to some old school players like Mongo Santamaria or Tito Puente to hear what I'm talking about! Vintage isn't just a matter of looks or style - it's also a quality of sound that's hard to find new in a stores or online today. He is required listening for the beignner player. I wish you luck if your an aspiring player or an experienced player & collector.

A well made percussion instrument from an old artisan - priceless. ( They deserve their own Mastercard commercial !-)

~ ISAAC GUTWILIK ~ (ebay id: tradicion-percussion) is a Percussionist in the New York area, runs TRADICION PERCUSSION SALES/ Auth. Rep. for JCR Percussion (formerly called funky tradition )
for the past 5 years. email: jcrpercussion@gmail.com or tradicionpercussion@gmail.com regarding any purchase inquiries or advice.

[Mike]

Hey Mike,
I don't own this set, it is from a bongogroup member. I wish I did, it looks great.
Look how tight the wood grain is.

I think it pays to be skeptical when buying vintage drums from ebay...
....and this gives me a chance to promote Isaac's excellent article on the subject!

Ah, alright, thanks for the enlightenment!

I know Isaac´s article, it is very good indeed.

[No.2-1820]

Haven't we seen that mismatched set before ? I'm sure they've been the subject of conversation on this forum in the past. I think those earlier LP's are very nice bongo's, but I think it's just lazy to pay much money for them (anything over say 250.00), I bought a set from a guitar center for $50.00 and have seen two sets in Mission district pawn dealers over the last couple of years. The advantage you have for scoring these at great prices outside of e-bay is that they look to the casual observer almost identical to the latter matadors etc, which are very common in pawn shops and the like. The set I found were very light, the wood was rusty red almost seemed like fir or redwood, I actually sprayed them bright green in a moment of madness, put a kip on the macho and a mule of the hembre and they sound great, I keep them at my mom's in the UK so I have a set over there when I'm visiting. The only problem I have with them is one of aesthetics, I'm not a fan of that big molded bottom hoop.

Barrie

[Isaac]

The set in question maybe OK for a good price...However they're a mismatched set.
The seller didn't verify the type of wood. I remember seeing them originally
for sale on ebay 2 years ago I believe. ( selling from San Diego if I recall)
LP definitely was not making mismatched
design sets like this . Martin was and is a perfectionist.
The bottom Rim on the Hembra is a an early one - perhaps a Gen I or likely a II ( with a new stain). The other
side - the macho may turn out to be the "original" cosmic - forerunner to what became the
the Matador. It also had the same non-shiny cast aluminum bottom rim, but with no logo. It was a lightweight
north american wood, with a very dry sound. Given good skins, these would make
a fine sounding set for a working musician. They have been refinished to give them
some common color at least, if not design. However the "Collectible" aspect is totally
misleading. Just see them for what they are.

On eBay, I once stumbled upon an original LP Mahogany wood - Hembra bongo only - I put a light colored thick & dry mule on it.
It was from Ohio. When I asked the seller about the other half of the set he became furios, saying
there was no such thing, and got all defensive. I later matched it up with a Matador Macho sold by itself from Minnesota
that I also found sans Hembra. Why do people take them apart and lose the center blocks ??
I now keep a blue X-ray film head on that macho. ( I was inspired by seeing Manny Oquendo's set with a film macho).
Visually they look a bit odd, but the sounds together are awesome. I worked for 10 years in some very loud but professional
big bands with some cheaper model LP Matadors, and never felt I was needing more. ( I had to get a Mic). It was only later in 1990
when I discovered about the top of the line handmade bongos with all their potential power & subtleties.
As far as the reality of making music - I was happy with whatever I could get my hands on, and it was primarily LP,
the first to put a good practical robust tuning system together. Tonight I listened with headphones to some Vintage Eddie Palmieri,
when Nicky Marrero was still the Bongocero and he was ripping it up on those LPs!
So in conclusion, if you're not a collector, those ebay bongos might do the job for you,
or provide some unique tones you don't currently have.

ISAAC

[Omelenko1]

Throughout the years I have had many of those early Palisades Park LP bongos, they always sounded awesome. I also had for about 30 yrs. one of the first 10 bongos made by M. Cohen, this set was made in 1964 and the original owner was Juan Mendez, who was Johny Pacheco's bongocero in the early 60's, his picture can be seen in Pacheco's Fania AFRICA LP. On this bongo' the macho was 7.25", later on the macho's were 7", after a request from Jose Mangual Sr. (Buyu). What I loved about this 1964 LP was its lightweight and the oversized macho. The labels on in said Maywood, NJ., which is where Cohen began his operation in 1964. Cohen visited my radio show in WDNA, Miami in the mid 80's and I took the bongo' for him to see it, there he confirmed it was from his very first batch of 10. After these, the macho's became 7" instead of 7 1/4". Enclosed see a picture of it. I traded it to Julito in this forum for a Pan Con Queso. I wish I still had it.

Saludos,

Dario

[Thomas Altmann]

The labels on in said Maywood, NJ., which is where Cohen began his operation in 1964. Cohen visited my radio show in WDNA, Miami in the mid 80's and I took the bongo' for him to see it, there he confirmed it was from his very first batch of 10.

Thanks for sharing Dario.

And they are stave-constructed, plain to see.

TA