Amplification for congas

[Firebrand]

Guys,

This is a two part question. One technical/gear based, and other about technique.

After a series of gigs where I had to play loud without amplications, I have tension on my left arm. It's on the fore arm, around the wrist, AND right under the ring and middle fingers. Thankfully, it seems to be receding, but it's been enough of a scare to finally prod me to buy a small mixer and a powered speaker to amplify my sound. I think I'm trying to recreate the crisp, audible sounds of records I hear in settings where there is no amplication and recreating the sound would require overexerting my arms and wrists/hands.

The first question: should I be worried about my arm long-term..or is this something that will recede with some rests in the arm

Second question: what do people recommend in terms of VERY Small 4-5 channel mixers capable of both conga / acoustic percussion applications and also have inputs for an electric bass. I want to pair up this mixer with a powered speaker that can output 350-400 watts. The purpose of the equipment would be electric bass amplification and percussion gigs, because I'm a drummer, bassist, and latin percussionist. The cheaper the better (is there a company out there like Behringer that sells cheap mixers and cheap powered speakers...maybe with 15" speakers).

Thank you guys.

[Firebrand]

Any help on this would be appreciated...thanks!

[Tonio]

WHats your budget?
Hows something like this? http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... sku=630196

T

[Firebrand]

Tonio,

Thank you for your suggestion.

That is probably too much. I'm looking more for a small mixer, like the Mackie DFX-6, that allows for up to three clip on microphone (3 conga setup) and have it all be sent to a powered speaker (maybe a Behringer...I hear they're nice and cheap, and heard some on the road, and they sound great). For bigger profile gigs at festivals or large rooms, I assume there is a sound guy that can take my mix from my small mixer and put it out through his general mix. But...the issue is that I'm prepared for any situation. I mostly do small club venues, but with latin-jazz sextets or septets, and I have to play the shit out of my hands to be heard. Thankfully, I have good technique, so I really know how to get the sound of drums...but it's affecting my hands and I don't want to end up with tendonities or carpal tunnel syndrome. So...it's time for me to invest in a system. After seeing a bass player of mine haul a 40 pound JBL powered speaker to his gig (while I lug around an Ampeg BA210SP 75 pound bass amp), I figured it was time to buy a lighter powered speaker of about 350-400 watts and a mixer that could plug in congas and electric bass, and have that be my consistent small-to-middle size club equipment for percussion and bass gigs.

I'm trying to see if anyone can suggest something along the lines of the Mackie DFX-6, but even smaller or cheaper. Behringer doesn't do mixers like that? ( i looked on their site...don't see it).

[onile]

Alafia Abure Firebrand!
Espero que todo este bien contigo Papa!

Depending on your budget, you may have to acquire your equipment over time. What I use are 3-Sennheiser e604s, Beheringer 1204 mixer, and a Mackie 450 powered speaker. You only need one speaker to hear yourself in a small venue, if you play a larger venue then you will have the luxury of a PA system. There is yet another system that is a bit costly, but it only has 250 watts, and that's the Yamaha Stagepass 500. It's pretty compact, yet I had orginally read that it had two 500 watt amps, but I haven't been able to confirm this. Here is a pic of my set on a gig I do with a four-piece Latin Jazz group (we actually have a fifth element, a DJ with us also).

Buena Suerte!

Onile!

[windhorse]

Onile, I also have those clip-on Senheiser's... They sure like nice, but with a relatively quiet stage with only traditional acoustic instruments, my Audix D2s placed a drum length above us works great. That way your singing and the fullness of drum resonance comes through the mics.. Just two mics takes care of everything, and you don't have to worry about hitting the mic or dropping off the drum!

[Congadelica]

Onile ,
Nice set up but can you please give a warning before you post pics of your Islas mine will be ready soon and pics like that just make me drool and my heart miss a beat .

Suave

Marco

[Tonio]

LOL,
congadelica, suck it up. You'll get em soon !!

T

[Tonio]

Forgot to add, Shure Sm57 or 58 will do the trick for mics too in a live scenario. They are less expensive than the Audix, or Senn's. I tend to like the 604's alot for recording live, much better spectrum of capture and great sound.

For more broad coverage, like Dave's recomendation, using a small diaphram condensor (e.g. SM81) is a good mic.
Good for getting the "whole" picture when aclinary percussion instruments are involved.


T

[umannyt]

Firebrand,

Aside from being a lead vocalist and a percussionist for my 2 bands, I'm also a trained and experienced sound technician. I own a complete bi-amped PA system complete with a separate stand-alone floor monitor system.

My personal policy has always been to buy the best equipment that I can afford--for maximum satisfaction, greater reliability and minimal performance glitches. Price is not my bottom line. Yet, I also don't necessarily buy top-of-the-line or the most expensive all the time and I mostly am able to negotiate buying my equipment at very reasonable prices.

For my percussion setup, I use 4 SM57s (2 for my 2 or 3 congas, 1 for my bongos and 1 for my timbales) and 1 SM94 condenser (for my chimes, guiro, tambourine and various other hand percussion toys). For the mixer, I use the Mackie 1202-VLZ3 ($299), mainly for it's superior mic pre-amps (translation: higher gain before feedback and cleaner sound). (I use and much prefer Allen & Heath for my big PA mixer.)

The Mackie DFX6 ($199) has inferior pre-amps but comes with built in effects and 5-band graphic EQ. It should work fine. You have a maximum of 6 mono channels.

Or, for the same price, you can opt for the new Mackie 802-VLZ3 and get the superior mic pre-amps but 1 less mono channel.

You can also look into the Yamaha MG102C ($99), also with a maximum of 6 mono channels Like the Mackie DFX6, but for $100 less. Or, the Yamaha MG82CX ($149) with 1 less mono channel for a maximum of 5, but with built-in effects.

IMO, you don't need built-in effects on mixers if you'll be using them exclusively for instruments and won't be using them for vocals.

[CongaTick]

About $99.00. Works beautifully with my 3 clip-ons and one stand mic . No fuss no muss. Others can recommend powered speakers.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/ ... B&ZYXSEM=0

[umannyt]

Firebrand,

I forgot to mention that you can Google musiciansfriend.com for prices of powered speakers that may fit your budget. I'm a JBL man myself and highly recommend their speakers but Mackie powered speakers should work for you as well. Since you'll be amplifying exclusively in mono mode, you'll need to buy only 1 speaker. The cheapest I've seen ranged between $350 to $450 each.

[BMac]

One thing I want to add about sound reinforcement for drums, is that raw power is not the only criterion. A small speaker system may seem to have ample power when tested alone, but then fail to reinforce a conga in a live sound environment. Maybe those little speakers aren't playing back the whole spectrum of conga sounds, but are playing back frequencies that get trampled and lost among the sounds of other instruments.

I bought a JBL PRX-535, a three-way self-powered monitor, to tackle that problem. I don't typically need its full power for my uses. But I do need its accurate sound field in order to keep all the frequencies from getting muddled.

Look at your drum diameter. A tumba has around a 12 inch diameter. According to my theory, you'll need a speaker at least as big as a twelve-incher to begin to try to create an accurate sound field to reinforce that tumba. A two-way speaker on a pole, say having a tweeter and an 8-10 inch "woofer/midtone" speaker isn't going to give you a sound field with the right shape. Everyone will agree noise is being made, and you can hear that noise over other instruments perhaps ... but is that noise music?

Mackie, JBL, and lower-cost three-way monitors are available with woofers as big as 15 inches. A three-way monitor typically includes a tweeter, a 6-7 inch midtone speaker, and a big-daddy 15 inch woofer ... and cross-over circuits to get the appropriate frequencies out of each speaker in the unit. I preferred the JBL when I shopped around. Even though I never need its full power, it sounds like a conga when used to reinforce a conga.

OK, so such an animal can cost you a grand or more ... but I recently saw the Mackie equivalents to my JBL for sale (new, last years stock) for under $700 a piece. Such a monitor doesn't solve your board challenge ... typical monitors have one input.

But somebody above recommended the Yamaha Stagepas 500 ... I just looked that up ... wow ... look at all the inputs! That's bad ass. But ... it has 10 inch speakers ... I'm a little skeptical on that issue.

Now I think the OP said he plays bass. Of course the actual sound field of an electric bass rig starts at the speaker ... not at the pickup on the guitar where electrical signals are generated. So its hard to talk about accurate sound reinforcement for an electric bass guitar, because the guitar itself makes little noise. The circuitry of a powered monitor is nothing like the circuitry for a bass amplifier. Bass amplifiers unabashedly process the signal ... each in its own wonderfully characteristic way without regard to "accurate" sound reproduction. So plugging your bass into my JBL might not please you at all. Typical sound reinforcement amplifiers and speakers aren't intended to be the first electronic processing unit for an electric guitar. That's why you sometimes see a guitarist use his favorite portable amp/rig on a big stage, with a microphone pointed at his amp/rig. His rig generates his favorite sound, and the big house PA connected to the microphone accurately reproduces that sound.

Reinforcing your congas and reinforcing your bass guitar on the same speaker system may be like trying to mix oil and water. Your congas aren't likely to sound good through your favorite bass rig, and your bass will sound weird if you plug it directly into an accurate sound reinforcement system. That said, I like the sound of a conga through a bass rig (more bass, punch, and presence) much better than through a lead guitar rig (too tinny and sharp). I've heard a keyboard amp/rig recommended as a good general choice (wide frequency response), but haven't tried it.

Ok, right, too much information for the question asked ... but I like to write ... can you tell?

Cheers
BMac

[congamyk]

I just use this and 2 mics.... works great for $279!



Behringer EUROLIVE B212A Active Loudspeaker
A loudspeaker with integrated power amp, inputs, level, and EQ controls.

The Behringer EUROLIVE B212A is an active 2-way PA speaker that features 400W power, a 12" long-excursion woofer, a 1-1/4" titanium-diaphragm compression driver with horn, and a versatile enclosure design that allows positioning for use as a monitor or main. You also get ultra-low noise mic (XLR) and line (1/4") inputs with level control and 2-band EQ plus an XLR out. It also has speaker protection, a 35mm polemount, and ergonomically shaped handles.

Behringer EUROLIVE B212A Active Loudspeaker Features:

* 2-way active PA speaker
* 400W power
* 12" long-excursion woofer
* 1-1/4" compression driver with horn
* Speaker protection
* Trapezoidal enclosure
* 35mm polemount socket
* Ergonomical handles
* XLR/mic input
* 1/4"/line input
* Level control
* 2-band EQ
* XLR out
* 14"W x 22"H x 11"D
* 36 lbs.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Behringer-EUROLIVE-B212A-Active-2Way-Loudspeaker?sku=600735

[bongosnotbombs]

That looks like the business, congamyk.