Notation... Reading vs. Playing... Training... - How important is notation in learning?

[DJAnyStyle]

I know that reading for specific parts in a written piece is important at times.

But, how important - or necessary - is it for a student of the Conga to learn, or more importantly, use in training?

Any thoughts?

-DJAnyStyle

[benbaboon]

I find it quite useful when I'm learning new rhythms to have a sheet that tells me which stroke comes after which.
You have to be careful though about the timing though, since many afrocuban rhythms will sound wrong if you played them exactly as they are written.
Many nuances of patterns that involve pushing, pulling, accenting, etc. cannot be transcribed.
Hope this helps... -bb

[JohnnyConga]

Hey DJ I have a book that taught me how to read in 4 hours,try it OK. it's called "Learn to Read Music" by Howard Shanet. It was actually written in 1958. But I think you could find it at Books.com or Barnes and Noble.com...It was published by Simon and Schuster/a Touchstone book. It covers Notation and a lot more. Now reading per se is good if you want to become a Studio Session man,or a Jingle man, or if you plan on doing sSymphony work. As a Latino Artist it helps to read also. Most charts for congas do have the breaks notated as well as "ponche's"/accents/hits. what rhythm should be played would be written in the top left corner of the chart. Mambo,Bolero,etc. At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[Simon B]

Reading is a good thing. But what has really helped my playing lately is WRITING. Do this - start very simply at first - and your reading will improve fantastically. As for feel, it is impossible to perfectly notate congas or any other musical instrument. Writing will really hit home this truth and show how 'feel' can work - trying to decide whether or not and when a player wanders out of a straight feel into triplets, etc. Accept writing for what it is - an imperfect but brilliantly useful record.


Simon B

[yoni]

Reading vs playing -

Wow, interesting question. My take on it differs some from what's written here so far, but I'm gonna stick my neck out anyway...

Sure reading is great if you're doing work that truly requires it, or if you simply enjoy it. As Simon said, it is an imperfect but brilliant record keeper.

Nowadays we have recordings - a more perfect and brilliant record keeper...

Because in the end, music is sound - an aural art, not visual.

Being unable to sight-read sure didn't stop Stevie Wonder, Ray Charles and many other great blind musicians.

[Simon B]

Definitely. Reminds me of a kit drummer I worked with who, though confident in playing timbale parts and drum-set Latin rhythms, was trying to develop his soloing. I remember him buying a book about drum-set Latin soloing and seeing him spend his evenings struggling with working through it start to finish and very little time listening to Latin music. I was slightly aggrieved, lent him a pile of CDs, found a number in his own collection that he wasn't consulting, and promptly told him to listen to the phrasing of the timbalero, the simple licks, and so on. Listening is the foundation, I told him, the books come afterwards and only as a support!

Nb. When I was talking about writing in my earlier posting what I meant was transcribing solos. Now I haven't done many since then, but at the time I did find it a really useful tool. I think it is useful to be able to remember how great players have said things. Not with the intention of playing out and regurgitating large chunks of classic solos (which at a push I might be able to do, though without their elan and precision), but as a way of helping me with the building blocks of the Latin language, to be built into my own personal expression, which is surely what every player aims at developing.

Simon B

[JohnnyConga]

Definetly learning to read a percussion chart helps. If you ever had aspirations of working as a studio session player you will have to be able to read scores. Of course I believe in learning to count bars and repetition of phrases to help me,also. Look at it this way, "the more in your arsenal the better you are". Learning to write rhythms out certainly helps,too. .....At your Service....JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[yoni]

"The more in your arsenal, the better you are". There's surely a lot of truth to that. I do not knock reading/writing, I know it's helpful. I just say it's not vital for excellence in music, and many fine un-sighted musicians prove this point.

By the way Johnny Conga, I heard your music here - wow. What incredible conga soloing! Beautiful stuff. This shows that you don't need to have Gio's technique in your arsenal to be a great conguero.

[JohnnyConga]

Thank You Yoni..well I have been around a bit longer than Gio,and my style of playing is my own for sure.Not that it's very different but it's my way of playing. I am almost 20 years older than Gio. I still learned stuff from him because he is such an innovator, and my skool is still open so I keep playing and keep learning as I go.....At your Service..JC JOHNNY CONGA......

[Michael S]

As a drummer, one of the most important things Johnny Conga mentions is the ability to count bars and phrase patterns. There are techniques to develop the ability to feel the space of the measures and one's internal clock. To underscore the importance of this, if one were to watch the Hidalgo video "Conga Virtuoso" there is a section where Gio, Ray Romero, and Changuito play ensemble and each solos for 8 bars. Ask yourself how they know when 8 bars has passed while playing a solo and the answer is their internal clock.
I am a firm believer in drummers understanding the mechanics of music for the reason it makes one a better drummer. Knowing how songs are constructed makes us better ensemble players. I myself study the piano every day as it also helps develop two hand independence and rhythm (it is a percussion instrument after all.)
Remember, music notation was developed for music that was meant to be played just as written. Jazz needs the sound to explain the notation.

[yoni]

"Remember, music notation was developed for music meant to be played just as written. Jazz needs the sound to explain the notation."

Couldn't agree with this more. Personally, I don't count. Ever. Unless I'm first learning a new rhythm or odd break. Counting just hangs me up if I do it while trying to play. Actually, even learning a new strange rhythm, I no longer try to count it, but rather to feel it's cycle. And I solo now as easily in 5, 7, 9, 10 and 11 and other times as I do in 4 or 3 quarter time. I rely solely on the internal clock. If my solo or break needs to be a specific length, I hear the cycle once or twice, internalize it, and that's it. I am almost sure that Gio and the others are not consciously counting during their solos/breaks. I think they are feeling cycles rather than counting (the internal clock, like you said, Michael). I don't think they can be bothered with analyzing mechanics while they are making such high instantaneous art.

Sorry if this sounds a bit cocky, guys. I'm no big commercial success and certainly don't say this approach of mine is a right one - it just works for me, and I am very thankful that I am able to live from music work alone.



Edited By yoni on April 22 2003 at 21:58

[Michael S]

I know this is way off of the topic but I am responding to something yoni mention. If I could transfer this to a new topic I would.
When I was a young kid, being a rock & roll star was a big dream. Now, at 48, I am SO glad that I am a skilled HVAC technician and DON'T have to make my living playing music. I have my music just for me and I can play or not play whatever, whenever, or with whomever I choose. Maybe I don't play as often but that's all right. When I do play, it is strictly for the joy of it, never is it just a job. Don't get me wrong; I am very passionate about music. I have just never met more troublesome people in any other field, often related to ego.
I have taught myself to play congas (and dabble with a doumbek), read music, understand harmony, rhythm, and pitch, and have, for 18 months, been teaching myself piano. Years ago I taught myself alto sax and when I was a kid, trap drumming. I'm having the time of my life with it and there's no pressure to be better than the next guy who might get the gig instead of me.
Get a job as a musician? No thanks, I'll keep my day job.

[yoni]

I find this is a very interesting point, this thing of music as a profession... I think the composer Hindemith wrote that a musician going into it for the purpose of a career has no business being in music! Yep, I also think it should be purely for the joy of it. I am lucky enough now so that I can pick and choose from various music projects offered. I personally never had "star" ambitions - I find great joy just in exploring the endless sonic and rhythmic options available from even one drum head, and only got into it because I just love hearing and playing around with the sounds...

But I also worked other jobs at times to get by, archeological field technician (that's about all you can do in that field with a B.A.), sometimes construction, even a few years as a CNA (certified nursing assistant), and other stuff that I don't even remember (or prefer not to).

Sometimes I do take a gig that is not of my first choice musically if things are very slow. I mostly enjoy it, even if it's just a "bread & butter" wedding gig, and often do encounter great musicians and wonderful music even in such seemingly mundane settings. Yes, if I don't enjoy it, I prefer not to play it. Doesn't work. But for me, even some of the "lesser" gigs sure beats other work I've done outside of music. I do have many other interests and appreciations outside of music... music is simply what I've done longest and best. What a blessing, to be paid and appreciated for simply having fun!



Edited By yoni on April 23 2003 at 10:19

[yoni]

By the way Michael, that point you made about lots of big egos in music sure is true! We all have ego, but in the arts it often seems to come out more. Although I'm playing from early youth, my high school studies were in acting, not music. And in acting I found even more inflated egos than in music. With acting, there's lots more room for bull, it is not as exacting as music, I guess. I went away from the acting scene fast, even thought of it as "professionalized lying" after awhile. Yeah, there's plenty of ego stuff among musicians as well, and I don't play anymore with the ones I find "bitchy".

Sometimes real good musicians can have "unfortunate" personalities, but luckily I still find enough easygoing ones who play terrific also.

[Michael S]

Yeah, I did a lot of acting in my high school days and eventually switched to lighting crew because actors are not of this world!
I should amend my previous statement to say that I would like to have a career in music. My dream is to own a drum shop and maybe even teach a little. I am such a big gear head I enjoy just being around all kinds of musical equipment.