Volcano Congas from Hawaii - Any info

[Facundo]

Dayem, those pics....


They make me moist! :laugh: :O :p

Moist hell, I just shot one! That collection of drums is stupid! It looks as if all of the best are in that collection.

However folks,

Let me add my comments to the issue of "best sounding drums". This is just my opinion and in no way is meant to be taken as the definitive answer to this subject. Never the less, to my mind based on what I have seen and heard over many years, there is no such thing as a traditional sound that comes from any one set of drums. I say this because there is just too much that has to do with who is playing. Would any of you say that Los Munequitos playing on LPs, Minels or Tocas would not sound "traditional"? I hardly think so. The issue has to do with touch and playing within the drums capabilities. There have been too many times I have seen seasoned drummers make "bad" sounding drums sound fantastic.

I think it is also important to mention the issue of "playing to the room". Too often I have heard drummers playing the same volume all the time. Rooms that are very 'live" do not need to be approached the same as a room that has sound absorbative properties. You hear this a lot with gimbe players but conga drummers can be just as guilty.

Now for the issue of the wood the drum is made from. While the available woods for drums may be different in places like Cuba that does not mean that an oak,ash, maple or rubber wood drum from North America or Asia can not sound traditional. The same would hold true for koa or mango. No to insult anyone but saying that only the local woods of Cuba or South America are the only woods that produce a traditional sound is nonsence.

Each wood type has its' own sound properties. The subject of tone woods is primarily centered around string instraments and how each type of wood affects the sound. While some of these properties hold true for drums I think that drums are affected somewhat differently. For my personal taste mahogany produces a sweet sounding open tone and is very responsive for all other tones on congas. The other big advantage to mahogany is that it is light in weight. It sounds like this also holds true for mango wood as well.

I think there is a combination of things that go into making the "best drum" - the shape, the wood, the head and how all of this is put together by the drum maker. Even then, it's all subjective and then "who's hands are on the drum".

My two cents,
Facundo

[109-1176549166]

Would any of you say that Los Munequitos playing on LPs, Minels or Tocas would not sound "traditional"? I hardly think so.

My two cents,
Facundo

Facundo,

I'm really loving this thread! I always enjoy a good, civil cerebral joust!

There's got to be a limit to what one can do with certain drums no matter how good the player is. Los Munequitos playing on drums that ring won't be able to remove that ring (without adding tape under the skins) no matter how good they are.

I guess at this point, before going any further, we need to define, "What is traditional sound?" Is it the same as folkloric? Somebody's got to be an authority on this.

Charlie (Yambu321) introduced, IMO, a very important distinction: congueros vs. rumberos. Rumberos seem to be more picky about their drums sounding folkloric and Charlie listed the drums that they prefer. Congueros, on the other hand, seem more flexible and more open to variations in sound and Charlie also listed the drums that are open to.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186788117

[109-1176549166]

I think it is also important to mention the issue of "playing to the room". Too often I have heard drummers playing the same volume all the time. Rooms that are very 'live" do not need to be approached the same as a room that has sound absorbative properties. You hear this a lot with gimbe players but conga drummers can be just as guilty.

My two cents,
Facundo

Facundo,

Agree. So, as in a scientific experiment, in comparing different drums, the room should (if can be helped) be made a constant, not a variable. Preferably, the room should have good acoustics.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186786856

[109-1176549166]

Now for the issue of the wood the drum is made from. While the available woods for drums may be different in places like Cuba that does not mean that an oak,ash, maple or rubber wood drum from North America or Asia can not sound traditional. The same would hold true for koa or mango. No to insult anyone but saying that only the local woods of Cuba or South America are the only woods that produce a traditional sound is nonsence.

My two cents,
Facundo

I don't think anyone ever CATEGORICALLY said that "the only local woods of Cuba or South America are the only woods that produce a traditional sound". At least not me.

All I ever said or implied is that I'd have concerns that rubber wood, mango, koa, etc. would be able to produce traditional or folkloric sounding drums. The burden of proof rests on conga manufacturers using these woods. If they can convince buyers that they can indeed replicate the traditional or folkloric sounds, I'd be very happy for them. Who knows? I might even end up buying their drums in the future.

But, in the meantime, these manufacturers can't ignore their competition that are out there: Matthew Smith, JCR, Isla, etc. They're already manufacturing topnotch congas that look like and produce traditional/folkloric-sounding congas highly favored by serious congueros and, if you will, rumberos.

So, for me personally, I'd rather play it safe and buy congas that already have an ESTABLISHED reputation for having both traditional/folkloric sound and looks. It just doesn't make rational sense for me to shell out big bucks (especially with some brands' significantly premium prices) and end up buying the wrong product that I MIGHT regret later on.

This is where I'm coming from.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186787207

[windhorse]

I think it is also important to mention the issue of "playing to the room". Too often I have heard drummers playing the same volume all the time. Rooms that are very 'live" do not need to be approached the same as a room that has sound absorbative properties. You hear this a lot with gimbe players but conga drummers can be just as guilty.

This brings to mind something that happened sometime last Spring when my conguero buddies and I played 4 songs for a group of folks who had just had a meeting in a large wooden room behind the auditorium at Chautauqua park in Boulder. My friend who had gotten us the gig brought in his rare set of plastic coated gon bops. For those drum geeks in the crowd, I'm not sure what they're called, but they're black with heavier than the usual Gon Bop hardware. They are louder than freeking hell, and you couldn't hear any of our singing though we were straining really hard! Thus, our first tune almost completely cleared the room. People were holding their ears!
This room though was certainly no ordinary room of it's size. It was easily 300 feet square and about that high, but the walls, ceiling, and floor were all hard wood paneling without anything to absorb sound.
So, I ran out to my car and we all yanked my four Mahogony Sols into the frey, and about 3/4 of the people who ran outside came back in and danced with smiles the rest of the time!
so, yeah, the room matters a great deal!
You really need soft sounding drums when there's un-amplified singing or instrumentation.
You can get away with hard wood or plastic drums outside maybe, but in a sound reflecting chamber, you gotta be soft!



Edited By windhorse on 1186782098

[109-1176549166]

Each wood type has its' own sound properties. The subject of tone woods is primarily centered around string instraments and how each type of wood affects the sound. While some of these properties hold true for drums I think that drums are affected somewhat differently. For my personal taste mahogany produces a sweet sounding open tone and is very responsive for all other tones on congas. The other big advantage to mahogany is that it is light in weight. It sounds like this also holds true for mango wood as well.

I think there is a combination of things that go into making the "best drum" - the shape, the wood, the head and how all of this is put together by the drum maker. Even then, it's all subjective and then "who's hands are on the drum".

My two cents,
Facundo

I completely agree that each type of wood has it's own sound properties. In fact, this has been my thesis on this thread all along.

I'll have to disagree, though, that "the subject of tone woods is primarily centered around string instraments". I've played guitar since I was a kid and, in addition to percussion, continue to play it. In fact, even though I've owned a solid-body electric guitar, I've never really liked any other type of guitar except acoustic guitar.

To digress, I currently own a Martin dreadnought acoustic guitar with a spruce top and rosewood back and sides. Rosewood has been one of the traditional woods used in serious acoustic guitars. It is considered the favorite of serious guitarists for its bassy property and sustain. It is also the most expensive wood for guitars, especially the solid Brazilian or Indian kind (rather than laminated). (Doesn't this remind you of solid stave vs. laminated stave with congas?) Rosewood enables an acoustic guitar to accurately replicate that traditional acoustic folk guitar sound of early-to-mid 20th century. Absolutely no mahogany or other woods for me.

I can tell you that drummers can be as picky, if not more picky, about the wood used on their drums. I have a very good friend, who's a professional drummer, who owns a set of DW drums and would never buy anything but drums made from maple wood. He's very picky about the sound of his drums and he knows exactly the drum sound that he wants.

I also agree with you that "there is a combination of things that go into making the "best drum" - the shape, the wood, the head and how all of this is put together by the drum maker." However, I'll have to disagree with you that it's ALL (totally) subjective. There are also OBJECTIVE criteria to determine what is the "best" drum. Being ALL subjective, IMO, implies being "arbitrary", "whimsical" or "biased".

Just as there are connoisseurs with wine and food and audiophiles with recorded music, I'm sure that there are true percussion (or more specially, conga) connoisseurs or audiophiles out there with very discerning ears.

Speaking only for myself, as I've said previously, on the basis of sound alone, there is no one best drum on the planet, but several best drums. Many of us know fairly credibly which these ones are. And when one has reached this point of choosing from among these best drums, deciding which one(s) to buy and use now becomes a matter of personal PREFERENCE, not just with sound, but also with other factors such as price, hardware, color availability, durability, customer service, etc.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186785258

[congalero]

congalero,

Is there a reason why you put the Volcanos on top of already other top-of-the-line boutique congas? Man, some people would kill just to have those congas underneath those Volcanos!

Do you have some sort of pecking order? The most expensive ones on top? :;): :laugh:

hey manny,

there is never a pecking order with my drums; all are 'stand alone' with their own merits from sound to craftsmanship. i truly appreciate and respect all of the makers of many of the drums available today (have met or spoken to most). as a general contractor, i view the quality of the workmanship (intricate finish work) that goes into each piece knowing that the end product will yield a quality instrument that echoes a special sound from the wood used to the shape of the drum. all have their place in a particular setting, but all may not be to the liking if all players nor their particular taste. i certainly will not be lazy and post a pic again that would give an impression of favoritism by not moving the subject to another room - i will only post by themselves. i am with you on the subject of this thread is bringing out so much emotion and feedback. there is nothing like having a quality discussion that evokes personal opinion. i always learn much from these discussions. all quality drums are to be appreciated on their own merits. the beauty of any drum 'is only stave deep'. the true test is in the long term durability and sound. i see no difference in any of these drums when it comes to that, albiet they have their own voices.



Edited By congalero on 1186785008

[109-1176549166]

I hope I'm not giving the impression that I'd like the contemporary congas and bongos to be frozen in time. I'd like to make it very clear that, even though I personally greatly favor the traditional/folkloric sound with my drums, I do am very much open to the continued evolution of these instruments for others with regard to sound, materials used, style, color, etc., particularly if this will improve what to me is the most important property of any musical instrument: sound.

Let's face it, the contemporary conga and bongo with its tunable hardware are themselves products of much evolution. If we're really anal about traditional drums, we should probably still be using congas and bongos with tacked heads and tuning them with candles. :;): :laugh:

Drum makers who venture into heretofore unknown territories in terms of research and technology are, IMO, to be greatly admired for their boldness. They expose themselves to a potential financial windfall or a financial jeopardy. They're at the whim of the consumer, who is king, who may or may not accept their new product(s). Then again, this could be their only way to survive and stay in the competitive percussion instrument manufacturing business.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186786714

[congalero]

well put manny

[109-1176549166]

My friend who had gotten us the gig brought in his rare set of plastic coated gon bops. For those drum geeks in the crowd, I'm not sure what they're called, but they're black with heavier than the usual Gon Bop hardware. They are louder than freeking hell, and you couldn't hear any of our singing though we were straining really hard! Thus, our first tune almost completely cleared the room. People were holding their ears!

(Paragraph snipped.)

So, I ran out to my car and we all yanked my four Mahogony Sols into the frey, and about 3/4 of the people who ran outside came back in and danced with smiles the rest of the time!

windhorse and everyone,

This may be slightly out of topic, but I need to address this here and be off:

Yup, we sometimes need to remind ourselves that we musicians should be entertainers and not just "playing for ourselves", which is what I facetiously call having a "musical masturbation". :;):

Especially with paid gigs, our audience is ultimately our employer, our "boss". Making them happy, without compromising our musical artistry, could mean the difference between getting another gig or not.



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186801329

[109-1176549166]

well put manny

Muchas gracias, congalero!



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186787978

[maSSivdrums]

Aloha All,

I hope the best for all our forum members, especially for those who share their much appreciated knowledge. I am happy to see this post take a turn for the positive, and have everyone explain in detail as to what they are trying to say. I have experienced in the past while conversing thru email and forums such as this one, that sometimes we do not see the real meaning of what someone is trying to convey while they are typing. In other words, some times the message that we type, may not have the same feeling as if we were to converse it in person, and sometimes misinterpreted (sp?).

Charlie, you have opened my mind when you distinguish the difference between a Rumbero and a Conguero. I thank you for that knowledge.

Manny, the "Master of Words", "Musical Masturbation" :p , I'm feelin' that!!! You da Man!!

And to everyone else who contributed to this post, I thank you also for the valuable information that is shared here.

This is a great tool ( this forum) and I hope it will continue for years to come, so when I teach my grandson ( 2 months old ) to learn to love the Congas, I hope this forum will still be around to give him this valuable knowledge.

Keep on Poundin' ...

Aloha, maSSivdrums

[109-1176549166]

Aloha maSSivedrums,

Thanks so much for your kind words! But, I'm not so sure that being associated as the possible originator of the phrase "musical masturbation", is something for me to be truly proud of! :;): :laugh:

To sum up, IMO, Volcanos are the contemporary Hawaiian evolution of the traditional Afro-Cuban conga and the bongo. They're made of wood that are native to the islands and handcrafted with the "Aloha" and "Kahuna" spirit--made with the genuine Hawaiian heart and soul!

The music world, particularly the percussion world, is all the more made richer because of their presence.

Mahalo, my brother,



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186855288

[bongo]

BONGO,

.....

A TRUE RUMBERO CAN PLAY ANYTHING A CONGERO CAN.

......

I'M A RUMBERO,
RESPECTFULLY,
CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO

Charlie,

Of course I've heard this before, just like the old rhythms.

Since I play a roots type kit with foot pedals, I probably am doing many things you can't. I don't claim to be a folkloric player, I am a band drummer.

You use words like 'respectfully', then slam the non rumberos. Tisk tisk ....

bongo

[109-1176549166]

BONGO,

.....

A TRUE RUMBERO CAN PLAY ANYTHING A CONGERO CAN.

......

I'M A RUMBERO,
RESPECTFULLY,
CHARLIE "EL COQUI" VERDEJO

Charlie,

Of course I've heard this before, just like the old rhythms.

Since I play a roots type kit with foot pedals, I probably am doing many things you can't. I don't claim to be a folkloric player, I am a band drummer.

You use words like 'respectfully', then slam the non rumberos. Tisk tisk ....

bongo

bongo,

With all due respect, I would've defended anyone else from what I perceive to be a negative rash and unfounded judgment on Charlie, not just because I happen to know Charlie whom I consider to be a frank but very decent guy. In fact, to be honest with you, my only contact with Charlie is through the phone. He was "introduced" to me by Mario Punchard of Isla Percussion who made Charlie's quinto, I believe. I still have to meet him in person.

Having said this, I don't think Charlie was slamming anyone. It's not slamming at all to tell the PLAIN TRUTH. Charlie is merely saying that "rumberos" are generally held to be on a higher skill level than "congueros". IMO, there's absolutely neither disrespect nor slamming in that. More so, there's absolutely no hypocrisy in that that you seem to acribe to Charlie.

As a guitarist and a vocal soloist myself, what Charlie said is like saying that lead guitarists can do what rhythm-ONLY guitarists can do, but not vice-versa. Or, that vocal soloists can do what background-ONLY vocalists can do, but not vice-versa.

If what he said was being disrespectful and slamming, aren't you then guilty of the very same "fault" that you criticize Charlie of.

I think you're being a little too sensitive and taking this a little too personally. As a result, you might have just misjudged Charlie. IMO, your reaction seems to me that you've taken Charlie's comments as a "pissing contest" and you've defensively reacted likewise.

What do you want Charlie to do: tell a lie and be hypocritical? IMO, that would be definitely be a lot worse.

Simon Cowell of "American Idol" may be the most blunt among the 3 judges, but he's almost always the most accurate. And you know what? His comments are, ironically, the most valued among the 3 judges by the very contestants that he himself supposedly "slams". :;):

Peace,



Edited By mjtuazon on 1186976108