Help in Soloing

[KingKongas]

I believe practicing a basic rhythm until you are real comfortable with it is key to be able to solo within that particular rhythm. I also believe soloing is an individual expression and there are endless ways to solo, however, I was wondering if there is something which can be considered a basic solo pattern, within say for example a guaguanco rhythm, that can be practiced as well. I have practiced the warm-ups, the paradiddles, and the rudiments shown in the Conga book on this site. This has helped me tremendously to be able to play with both hands and has opened my "eyes" to more techniques than ever before in my playing. But can soloing be "broken down" in a musical sense or even charted musically?

Sorry if the above sounds confusing as I have re-read it but hopefully someone will get what I mean and help me out on this. Thanks in advance. ???

[120decibels]

KingKongas,

These are just my opinions on the topic, but here it goes:

Improvisation and soloing is one of the things that let a musician create his or her personal sound. It is how you "speak". Your swing and rhythm are other ways, but soloing is big opportunity for you to say something as an individual.

That being said, there is a lot of value in listening to other's solos, learning and even transcribing them. That really helps you to understand what other people have to say in a given situation. My approach on vibes and now on congas is to learn what others have done soloistically, and then try to bring my voice and my personality into it. People spend a lot of time transcribing vibe solos, I think it is a good idea to do for drum solos as well.

Breaking down soloing is very specific to the musical style and even the specific tune. Build up your rhythmic vocabulary so that you can say something in 2,4,8,16,... bars in many different styles. I'm working on that now, and it's tough. However, being able to show your stuff in whatever "language" (mambo, guauanco, etc.) you're playing is important.

I hope this helps. I apologize for all of the speech-related euphemisms, but I like to think of it that way.

My $0.02,

Zach

[tamboricua]

I believe practicing a basic rhythm until you are real comfortable with it is key to be able to solo within that particular rhythm. I also believe soloing is an individual expression and there are endless ways to solo, however, I was wondering if there is something which can be considered a basic solo pattern, within say for example a guaguanco rhythm, that can be practiced as well. I have practiced the warm-ups, the paradiddles, and the rudiments shown in the Conga book on this site. This has helped me tremendously to be able to play with both hands and has opened my "eyes" to more techniques than ever before in my playing. But can soloing be "broken down" in a musical sense or even charted musically?

Sorry if the above sounds confusing as I have re-read it but hopefully someone will get what I mean and help me out on this. Thanks in advance. ???

I do agree with Zach suggestion. Listening and transcribing as much as you can, will help a lot. Also, this is where I like to recommend Cliff Brooks excellent "Quinto Soloing Book". If you learn to solo in a rumba format, trust me you will be in the right track. Everything else, Afrocuban music wise; Salsa, Mambo, Chacha, etc. derived from Folkloric music.

Hope this helps!


Saludos, Jorge Ginorio

http://www.rhythmweb.com/jorge

[Simon B]

As has been said earlier, it is important to be aware of the 'language' of the musical style you are playing in. One aspect of Latin soloing that all instruments (but especially percussion) will often employ is the stating of any SIMPLE PHRASE, but re-stating, repeating and elaborating on this phrase according to a slightly different time. This often works as described in the Chuck Silverman 'Changuito' book (quoting ethnomusicologist Weihua Zhang from China) - 'the conscious blurring of durational values between duple and triple'. Changuito is a master of this - often his timbale solos start with a phrase that conflicts (or interacts) with the time-signature, is repeated steadily, and then BANG - is straight back in the with the clave and the beginning of the next four or eight-bar section, exactly as he wanted!


Simon B

[JohnnyConga]

Soloing is your internal musical and rhythmic improvisation built around the arrangement. There are 2 distinct varieties of soloing on quinto the "broken" or choppy" style and the flowing never break stride style. Most soloing on congas in clave is done as I was taught in and here is the secret! In 2's and 3's. Listen to the riffs by a Mongo or Patato and you will here them repeat there riffs 2 or 3 times to fall back into clave and begin the next round of riffs. That is a true secret to playing in clave and in time and making your solos make rhythmic sense. At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA.....PRACTICE UR 2'S AND 3'S.....

[RayBoogie]

JC, your 100% correct. I listened to tracks from Mongo and Patato and they riff 2-3 times to fall back to the beginning of the break. Thanks.

As said earlier, listening to other drummers riffs helps you to create your own solo's. With the amount of times that I listen to Cal Tjader's tracks I can see some of Mongos, Patato and Sanchez riffs incorporated with my riffs. I still have a long way to go with my drumming, but looking forward to my development as a conguero.

I also stop taking conga lessons. One reason is because of finance. Second reason is because I find more challenging teaching myself than having a teacher. I will say that having a teacher showed me the proper technique which I thank my former teacher. Yet, I feel teaching myself is more gratifying.

[120decibels]

Ray,

That's really interesting. There are a lot of musicians that are self-taught. If that works for you, more power to you.

I've found that the value of a good teacher is not always in the technique and rhythms that they can show you. It's in those little secrets and thier experience. Also, it's nice to have a teacher so that you can leverage thier connections.

I had an experience this weekend that I probably wouldn't have otherwise had. I got to sit in with my teacher's band, Rumba Club. I played one tune on quinto, but it really was an incredible experience. I don't think that I would have had that opportunity otherwise.

To each his/her own. I am just a big proponent of having a teacher if you can.

Zach

[carlitos]

Thanks for all the comments to all the questions I had not asked yet, this site is priceless with all the experience grouped here. Would love to play with some of you some day and learn first hand.
Carlitos

[KingKongas]

Thanks for all your help! I am now in an Afro-Cuban percussion class and can handle the basic rhythms taught there... but when it comes down to soloing I tend to try and play every solo I've ever heard in one measure! I guess I am looking for help in understanding the "timing" factor for soloing. For example, when to come in on a solo within a rhythm. If the clave of a rhythm we are playing is 3-2 versus 2-3 does that have any bearing as to the "timing" of when a rhythm starts??? I have been listening to percussion music all my life and have always tried to imitate the masters. I do not possess the music background to "transcribe" what I hear but would love to learn. Any suggestions as to where to look for transcribing music for beginners?

BTW, I got to see Bobby Sanabria last nite and he was awesome! He detailed the historical perspective of the "5 beats" from Africa to today while at the SAME time playing a 2-3 wooden clave the entire time! It must have been at least a 25 minute oration and he didnt miss a beat. I wish I had a video of that to show my kids. He had a set of 4 congas and a drum set kit that he played while at the same time using a foot pedal to play the clave! (He didnt play the drum set and the congas at the same time just in case you're wondering).

Johnny- can you please explain practicing the 2s and 3s a little more? I'm over here guessing as to what it means but would like to learn more about that.

Thanks for all your replies!

[RayBoogie]

Hey 120, to play with your teacher must have been awesome!
My former teacher also expressed that he would let jam with him in one of his gig's. And yes your correct 120, to get an opportunity like to gig with an professional musician is far and few.

My former teacher and I did a little jam session, him on bongos and me on four congas, which I recorded. Man, that recording is HOOOOOTTTTTTTT!!!! I wish I could share it with you guys.

It would be good if we all could get together and JAM a little!
Maybe have a CONGAPLACE convention or something like that.

Take care guys.

[JohnnyConga]

TIMING IS EVERYTHING! whether it's in Latin music or otherwise. Yes it does matter if it's 2/3 or 3/2 and how you "phrase" your improvisational ideas. 2's and 3's are playing one riff 2 times or 3 times or even 5 times. A riff is a pattern that can be repeated over and over within the context of the arrangement and the alloted time allowed for the solo. say you have an 8 bar solo you will have to count the bars as you are soloing,which is not an easy feat to do. In time you will be able to "feel" 8 bars 16 bars,etc.yOUR IDEAS(RIFFS) will have to be in clave and fit the 8 bars also.So you won't really have to count and you will be much free-er to improvise. Learn to talk what you hear from the redcords. Listen to Mongo's patented conga solos and talk them back to yourself .Learn the Language of the drum. "If you can say it-You can play it" then take those ideas and play them out to yourself. Of course a teacher would help a great deal in laying the groundwork to soloing. right now concentrate on the basic fundamentals and the soloing will eventually come.I hope you understand this,if not I will try again to explain.....At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[congabebe]

I have been listening to drum solos more that I have listened to Conga solos. As a flute player that took up congas. I hear something that relates to the 2/3's. Not sure if I am on same level. What I hear is the music has patterns in it, whether they are notes in a scale or beats per measure. To me a great soloist, takes the theme of the song and plays a new verson of it. Kind of counter statement to the theme of the music. I have heard solos that were a technical collection of 'riffs', totally un-connected to the music that had been played. They were good solos, but the ones that stick out are the ones you can hear the song in the back ground, and it is like a 'scat' that plays against it. I have seen several musicians, literaly singing/humming under their breath, the melody/song while playing a solo, even though they are the only ones playing they never loose the melody, it is in they head. Right now, I play riffs, and I try to relax and keep a grove going. I don't have enough technique to do much. I got a long way to go, but my best solos are when I have kept the melody in my head. Keeps me from rushing or breaking my concentration and helps me phrase my riffs in better.

my 2 cents,
congabebe

[KingKongas]

Excuse the not-knowing about music technicalities or theory, but... can you explain the difference, or similarities, between a riff, a flam combo, chops, a "snippet" of a beat, etc.? Are they similar? I've been practicing taking a little of everything and see where that takes me.

[Simon B]

'Chops' is one of those words that I find annoying but insist on using. I think to most folk it refers to technique, with a specific emphasis on soloing skills. I don't think 'chops' incorporates sensitivity or dependability as a player.

Simon B

[Fish]

I'm with congabebe on this - all the best solos incorporate sections of the tune or variations on it. If you listen to jazz/funk solos you'll find that a lot of solos start off with something very similar to the fist bar or so of the tune. Also if there is anything particularly memorable in the tune it is good to use that in the place it occurs in the tune - I hope that makes sense.

The other thing is when you're improvising a solo and you play something good (I maintain that no matter how good an improvisationist you are there will always be good parts) repeat it (perhaps a bar later or something). That gives the listener something to hold onto - particularly in drum/conga solos where it is harder to play a "melody". I'm just listening to Buddy Rich and he's doing it - only about five times faster than is humanly possible.

Cheerio,

Fish