double roll bouncer - help for doubles?

[yoni]

Hi all,

This will sound funny but I just found a new "practice pad"... Was at friends' house who had one of those plastic inflated balls that people sit on and bounce around on.

I gave it a try and my hands started tapping on the ball as I sat on it. Not much sound, but the bounce made double rolls slow and loose, like they shoud be practiced anyway. I played it between the knees like bongos.

I heard of set drummers who practice with sticks on pillows to build muscle and chops. But pillows have no bounce. Since the hands bounce so easily off this ball, it may help one get the feel of the double and other bouncy stuff.

Anyway, if someone else tries it, let me know what you think!

???

[yoni]

Wow, 159 views and not one response?

Nu, didn't anybody try it yet?
Maybe it sounds too silly, but give it a try and say what you think!

[gilbert]

i used to practice my double strokes on the Tumbadora because it bounces alot but i dont think thats good because doing these rolls on the quinto is different

[yoni]

I see your point, sure is true the lower drums bounce more. The blow-up ball even moreso. That's why I thought it might help one get a feel for the double bounce if they were unfamiliar with it.

But practicing on the drums we play on sounds best to me, too.

[CongaMan]

Ok Yoni... now I know what's the next present for my children!!
I'll let u know after christmas!!

[CongaTick]

Coming from a doubles master such as Yoni, I would takehis advice very seriously. The path to doubles virtuosity is a long and for me dificult one. Consistency and speed elude. Three steps forward and two back. But I persist in my efforts to mommydaddy bounce perfection versus the Tata Guines heel-toe ("fish"?)

[OLSONGO]

Personally, I have the 5's 6's7's8's and working on the long one the technique is there, but the clean consistant volume eludes me by 15%. I don't rely on the bounce, I go more for the wrist control; and if I am not in front of my congas I hit the restautrant table, the chair arm rests etc. I think that is something we all do.

Paz OLSONGO

[Diceman]

Yoni,

I discovered the double a while back, and it is now part of the armoury, but I still dont get the volume I want.
Any tips on that brother?

Diceman

[yoni]

Hey Diceman, hey all,

Diceman, as I told ya, trying a lower seat may help some. Giovanni Hidalgo is pretty short, true, but seeing him run those doubles with the congas very high in front of him gave me the idea to try them while sitting in a lower chair. It seems to help, but then I think practicing them often, loose and hard at the same time, is what helps the most. As also I said before, I do them much better now on darbuka than on conga, but it's probably because I've been practicing them much more on darbuka by now. HOWEVER, having the darbuka "out in front of me" may give my hands a similar angle and effect as with congas in a relatively high position. Makes any sense?

Like Gilbert said here, playing them on a tumba, which is looser than a quinto, can also give doubles more bounce and volume.

May also be safe to say that doubles may never have quite as much volume as singles, but if they are miked nice and close, as in Gio's, Richie Flores's and other's shows and recordings, they will be heard plenty loud.

Hope this helps!

BTW, I will very soon have ready my learning DVD on advanced hand and finger techniques in percussion and will alert as soon as it's available!

All the best,

Yoni

[Diceman]

Yoni,

I tried that when we discussed it before, and they are getting louder, but still dont stand out in an acoustic situation, maybe I should mic up every time. I also got it to work on bongos, where gecause of the pitch it does cut a bit better.

Good idea on the DVD- Nuevo Mano Secreta (excuse the bad Spanglish

Are you back in a more peaceful Israel now, I hope that is the end of it?

suave
Diceman

[yoni]

Hi Diceman,

One more thing that will help doubles' acoustic projection is if the congas are on stands.

But yes, for acoustic situations where other drummers are involved, the doubles may not be heard strong enough... nothing like good miking for them! Check out Giovanni's conga solo on his CD "Hands of Rhythm". Sounds to me like his drums are on stands, 'cause you hear the bass sounds well and even his quieter "fish" type doubles come out nice and strong there. And of course he must have been VERY well miked.

When my congas are up on stands my doubles sound stronger. Same for if the conga sits down "street style" but is tilted forward to open the sound hole. Same for when I play doubles on djembe.
For me they sound loudest on darbouka because I been playing them a lot on it, and maybe that "angle of dangle" also has to do with it, as mentioned before. And the highs cut through also, as you mentioned with bongos. I do doubles on bongos in an audio file on my mini web page here (Yonatan Bar Rashi) and they were not separately miked, yet come out strong.

Yeah, Israel is more peaceful for now, thanks for asking, and gigs are picking up... hoping the peace keeps up and grows...

All the best,

Yoni



Edited By yoni on 1159437186

[Diceman]

Yoni bro',

Thanks for sharing your good advice, and very glad about the peace, long may it stay.

Diceman

[yoni]

You're welcome bro!

Just a couple more thoughts - CongaTick reminded me here that my path was long and hard, but now that doubles come easy to me I refuse to believe that others can't do them well in much less time than it took me...

Olsongo said table tops - NYC public school cafeteria table tops were my first group training grounds - the latest funk beats boomed out from 20 kids per table until a teacher or dean could quiet down the big hall...
A solid table top will give faster bounce than the bouncy ball or tumbadora and is fun for me to double up on for a while.

Most fun is, of course, to practice them on your lovi's back or behind, depending on her good cheer, and how much wrist strength is desired... a softer surface may build muscles stronger.
Nothing like a gentle double roll to soothe the savage beast in her, I say.

Play it on all kinds of surfaces, but like Gilbert said, mainly on the drum. Play them slow for a long tme and slowly gain speed.

At high speeds each hand does a little flam, and you can drag each hand toward you a bit with the start of each double stroke. Really let them loosely "flop" toward you, maybe not paying too much attention to sound at first, but more to get the feel of this bounce - once this bounce comes, you can do what you want with it. There is a certain marked relaxation in the wrists that must be present and constant for this to work for you. In time, it really will. The relaxation must be there even as we force ourselves to reach faster speeds.

All the best,

Yoni

[Diceman]

Ha Ha ha ha

Easy Tiger, double bouncers on your babies back mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I'm cool with the speed and evenness, and my technique is pretty much as you describe, getting the same volume as my single rolls is my target.
Also I find that for slower double rolls I have to change to more of a wrist movement to get doubles and there is a speed gap between my single roll speed and lower double speed. So the challenge is, do I practice for faster single rolls or slower double rolls.

Any thoughts on that?

best

Diceman

[franc]

dice, both are great exercises. i do both and like you i am good in speed and evenness. the speed that i have which you mentioned is less in the double rolls than in the single rolls. i am quite fast in the single rolls than the double rolls. the single rolls are more important the the double. the single is more intruduce in music than the double. but both are important and i recomend both. my best and ache, franc