"Comfort" vs. "Classic" Rims - Why are there two styles?

[umannyt]

Charlie,

What I've commented favorably about Isaac's points apply to you, too!

[bongosnotbombs]

I was curious so I tried to find photo's of LP's factory, to find more info on the comfort rim, couldn't find too much.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 3v2379.jpg

[bongosnotbombs]

next

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 3v2381.jpg

[bongosnotbombs]

looks like a nice place to me.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 3v2389.jpg

[bongosnotbombs]

Compare to Moperc. Those rims look pretty labor intensive to me!



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1198345696

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... 652-27.jpg

[bongosnotbombs]

The Volcano Percussion guy.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... _weld3.jpg

[bongosnotbombs]

Some shots of the old Valje shop in S.F.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... vint12.jpg

[bongosnotbombs]

Valje again.

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... vint05.jpg

[bongosnotbombs]

I don't know, but those traditional rims look like a lot of work. All that bending and welding, then you got to file the welds so it looks clean, have to make sure those rims are super round, then you got to chrome them.

Unless your using stainless steel those don't need chrome, however stainless steel is even harder to work with. Harder to cut, harder to bend, and costs more.

I think it's part of the reason Isla's are a bit less expensive than the rest. Isla doesn't go through the same finishing steps on their hardware, which is always very time consuming and costly, especially polishing and such. Isla's intent seems to be a more rustic finish.

I wonder if any of those guys wishes they had a stamping machine after welding their 20th rim?

Those comfort rims are for sure stamped, it's evident in the edges of the rims on the lower priced models. There are also no mold lines on the rims I have seen. Also the enormous expense and space requirements of a foundry and the sheer number of molds your would need.

Just like most pots and pans comfort rims are stamped.



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1198348887

[umannyt]

I don't know, but those traditional rims look like a lot of work. All that bending and welding, then you got to file the welds so it looks clean, have to make sure those rims are super round, then you got to chrome them.

Unless your using stainless steel, that stuff is even harder to work with.

I think it's part of the reason Isla's are a bit less expensive than the rest. They don't go through the same finishing steps, which is always very time consuming. They are going for a more rustic finish.

Extensive research work! Thanks for sharing your very interesting pics! They only buttress my position that traditional rims involve (substantially) more labor (and therefore higher cost per unit) than comfort rims.

Dunno about Islas being a bit less expensive partly because of their use of stainless steel for their rims. Moperc use stainless, too, and yet are still more expensive that Islas.

I realize that there are other factors, such as the type of wood used (canoe or cherry vs. North American ash or maple), machinery invested, level of wages, profit margins, even the relationship of the U.S. dollar to Canadian dollar, etc. which may explain why Mopercs are more expensive than Islas. I really don't know.

However, it remains (to me at least) that Islas use of stainless being part of the reason why they're a bit less expensive is inconclusive.

Moreover, I've always been under the impression that a major factor why chromed steel is used vs. stainless steel is because steel (even after being chromed) is still cheaper than stainless steel. I could still be wrong. But, my gut feel tells me that this only makes sense.



Edited By umannyt on 1198350112

[Tonio]

wow, you dudes are still at it?

Nothing wrong with a good debate, or should I say a heated dicussion about the stuff we love

That said, here me $.02:

Comfort curves: made by mass producing corporations. They have the integrity to utilize invested machinery for mass producing in less time and less labor to an imaculate finish. Results: Professional output in cookie cutter fashion, each one (in a model) is almost identical, and probably sounds the same -hit or miss based on skin, but real close.

Whether or not the original intension of an instrument is still there or not, they are usable.

Traditional rims: Made by artisans most likely born from the love of either the drum or culture. They don't have the integrity of investing in automated machinery, however is not required due to the keeness to traditional foresight. It matters more for the final product: sound . some may be more advanced in the design and have near perfection, some are still in a work in progress stage. Each on e has a individual sound to the product. Asthetics are another thing I won't go into.

Their intent is to make the best drum they can.


To me, either one can be usable, and is a matter personal taste in what the musician is trying to accomplish. I am happy to say, that different flavors are abundant for us.

I idealize mass produced congas and bongos, or any instrument - like pizza!

Sometimes I like to take the time to hand make a good hand made pizza, with good natural ingredients in an old school fashion. Sometimes I don't have the time, and result in getting a frozen or order a pizza from a coporate pizza maker. Each has its own plusses, and minuses.

Feliz Navidad !!

p.s. I will be making some good New York style, or Napolitan pizza tomorrow after I work up the dough tonight . mm. mmmm



Edited By Tonio on 1198356484

[umannyt]

wow, you dudes are still at it?

Nothing wrong with a good debate, or should I say a heated dicussion about the stuff we love

I idealize mass produced congas and bongos, or any instrument - like pizza!

Sometimes I like to take the time to hand make a good hand made pizza, with good natural ingredients in an old school fashion. Sometimes I don't have the time, and result in getting a frozen or order a pizza from a coporate pizza maker. Each has its own plusses, and minuses.

Feliz Navidad !!

p.s. I will be making some good New York style, or Napolitan pizza tomorrow after I work up the dough tonight . mm. mmmm

Tonio,

Nope, I've already rested my case. At the end of the day, there was absolutely no harm done to me, as far as I'm concerned. As an ex-future monk, this dude is easily forgiving.

You're absolutely right: there's nothing wrong with a good debate or even a heated discussion about the stuff we love--congas (in particular) and percussion (in general). As long as it doesn't get personal and, worse, stay personal.

Thanks for your well-balanced input on comfort rims and traditional rims.

And I just LUV your pizza analogy and anecdote! Hmmm, my mouth's watering already by just the thought of your New York-style pizza. Chicago-style is fine by me, too. LOL!

And, thanks for reminding me about the true spirit of the season. Yes, of course, Feliz Navidad, Happy Hanukkah, Happy Kwanzaa or Happy Holidays to all our brothers and sisters out there!

May we have lasting true peace (True peace is a lot more than just the absence of war.) on earth and good will to all people!



Edited By umannyt on 1198358818

[congamyk]

To me, either one can be usable, and is a matter personal taste in what the musician is trying to accomplish. I am happy to say, that different flavors are abundant for us.

That sums it up.


Nice pics BNB. The photos merely show the spot welds on traditional rims, nothing more. It appears they are just bent by hand using a circular wood form. I've done this myself using stainless auto aftermarket accesories. No big deal, takes 10 seconds to bend the circle then another minute or 2 to weld. Then a few minutes to grind off and finish.

Does anyone know the price difference (if any) on replacing comfort curve rims versus traditional rims?

[Tonio]

Comparison:
http://www.anydrum.com/Merchan....NGARIMS

LP734A 11" chrome $63
LP253B 11" chrome $49

Hey , I guess traditional is less to manufacture. Or maybe, its a matter of investment recoup stratagy? he, he..... crap , I'm gonna get some LOL

[bongosnotbombs]

Does LP even make a traditional rim conga anymore?



Edited By bongosnotbombs on 1198389034