Basic tumbao heel-finger question. - Basic Technique

[Bongo Boy]

I'm a beginner. If I practive heel-finger at slow tempo, the fingers come onto the head fairly flat--as though you wanted to make a finger print (the 'pads' of the fingers hit the head).

But, when practicing tumbao, the L-finger stroke immediately following the R-slap contacts the head more at the finger tips. It's almost impossible at any tempo at all to get much more than a finger-tip touch.

Is this a typical beginner's issue, is it normal for an advanced player, etc., etc. Hey, I warned you this was a beginner question.

[Mike]

Well, at least you should try to keep the L-fingers flat and not use the fingertips because the sound is better with more contact to the head.
On the other hand, at faster or very fast tempos you do not hear much of the ghosted in-between notes anyway, especially if you play with big bands or loud´n´large ensembles.

[timo]

it migth be becase you make a "open" Slap (not muted with left hand) if you mute the slap, by pressing on the head as you slap, its just like continuing the tumbao. hope this helps.

[JohnnyConga]

Bongo boy...Just let the hand relax when doing the "left hand Shuffle" the tendancy is for the left hand to "lift off" the fingertips after the right hand slap.Lifting the wrist,as it should be. The left hand is only for you to hear and the right hand the band/music,when playing "Tumbao". Are you studying with anyone.? Drummer for Peace....At your Service ...JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[Bongo Boy]

Okay...this advice sounds consistent--it's going to be more or a timekeeper/ghost then, but I still need to pay attention.

No, currently I'm teaching myself. I get scattered a little bit during my practice sessions, not setting specific goals for each session and not having a 'program'. I'm using Sanabria's video and also one of Giovanni's for beginners.

[JohnnyConga]

KIRK NOW U GOT IT. The left hand is the time keeper,when playing latin style drumming,or tumbaos. As u advance and your left hand begins to "open" more, the time will shift eventually to internal, of the swing,feel,afinque......of the rhythms. These are "Dance" rhythms and the timing has to be perfect in it's attack with every stroke....so take your time the road is Looooooooong!.....Drummer for Peace..At your Service....JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[Bongo Boy]

Well, I paid a little bit more attention, and here's what I was REALLY doing. I was alternating--two bars with a single open with two bars with a double open. I'm sure there's a name for this.

So, it was actually after the single OPEN tone, where the L-hand is off the head but the next stroke is L-tip. THat L-hand was getting higher and higher off the head, apparently, in prep for that single open, causing trouble getting L-tip in position.

I've been practicing keeping the unecessary hand motions to a minimum, and have been able to get a better finger hit.

[JohnnyConga]

yA KNOW i GOTTA TELL YA With all this finger tip ,muff that, palm this, I think it's just getting to be a bit confusing with all this "book Knowledge". Please try and find a true Drum teacher that help show you physically the right approaches. there are too many books out there with concentration on counting(which is good) and style. Give me patterns to practice, not notation. I am from the "First Skool" of conga drumming where we even before a lesson was made to do 25 push ups before I started to even touch the drum. the was shown a pattern and emulated it. It's about Emulating. that is why a Teacher is so important. And I'm not necesarrily saying a Teacher from a University but one in the Folkloric Drum Arts. a Caribbean folklore drummer with years of practical experience. the books are ok to a point but after that your still on your own. You can't take a book to the GIG.now can you? At your Service...Drummer for Peace...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[Bongo Boy]

I convinced! Especially since even advice from experienced folks, when provided in writing (email, internet, etc), gets misinterpreted and confusing.

What might be useful is a small set of good questions to ask a prospective instructor that would help to select one that's appropriate for a beginner. It's not as though I'd be able to know a good instructor from a bad one, until it's too late.

[JohnnyConga]

Hi guys.....I would just like to say that you have to learn to put "Rhythms" to memory and not "depend" on the written notation. Notation is good, don't get me wrong but "practical application" by an experienced teacher is far better. Drumming is a very personal thing.I was "blessed" to have 2 completely different teachers,one who gave me my technique and style and the other gave me theory,rhythms, and taught me how to play for dancers(ballet,jazz,African,and Afro-Cuban). This is invaluable information that i got from them,that no school teaches here in the states. They taught me how to "distinguish" good playing from bad playing,in myself and others,by using my ears and eyes. I sought out Rumbas where ever I could find them just to learn how to "jam" and "hold my own". I believe we all need a "mentor" Mongo Santamaria and my teachers were mine. I know it's not the same as when I was coming up,but you can't ignore the "Roots", of the drum, it's history precedes you and you will be in the position to carry the lineage of information from one generation to the next,as long as it's "proper" information. There are a lot of cats out there ready to write a book on playing this and that, anyone can do that,but can you "PLAY"? I also see a lot of guys "making up" stuff about playing and theory. Man if you haven't played in over a 1,000 bands like I have ,please don't spread a "slacker" mentality to the drum. Seek out a "true" teacher you will know when you find him if he/she is right for you........JC JOHNNY CONGA

[Bongo Boy]

..not sure I'm following you. What part of this thread got you to thinking about notation and books vs practical experience, etc.? I think we ended up talking about something like reading substituting for practice, or something like that.

Originally, I was having what I thought might be problem with heel-tip technique. I noted that this forum includes recommendations that contradicts what I see elsewhere, and you recommended getting a live instructor. Seems like good advice--but the question now is, how can a beginner know if an instructor is 'qualified'?

Here's my point. Bobby Sanabria and Miguel Diaz are, as far as I know, both good players. Now, Bobby may not be as dedicated to conga as Miguel, but I know I'm not qualified to say which of the two is 'better'. BUT, I have video of both of them, and their advise for the heel-tip technique is totally contradictory. Bobby says you use the heel, Miguel says specifically you DON"T.

Okay, let's assume they can both play conga--how would I ever KNOW if one of them is 'right' and the other 'wrong', or if one teacher will screw me up in my training?

Now let's make it real--I have to pick a teacher I've never heard of, no one has ever heard of, and who may not even play conga as his/her primary instrument. I feel I have to make a choice, go for it, and hope for the best. Do you see how this can cause a little stress?

This isn't an issue of expecting to become proficient in 90 days, it's not an issue of mechanically playing to sheet music vs getting in the groove. It's more a matter of trying to gain a consensus from all those who claim to know, and who all have often differing opinions. Does that make sense?

[congabebe]

Ok, so here is my 2 cents for what it is worth. I have a Bobbie Sanabria tape but I started out with Jerry Steinholtz (Essence of Playing Congas). Both are different teachers, technique different. I have studied flute and Saxophone, taken private lessons all my life. It is true a teacher can set you on fire with knowledge and inspiration. Or they can bore you to death or cause you to loose your focus by demanding repetious exercises and take the life out of playing all together. Back to my point. Every teacher will teach you the abc's. You got to do your home work. Techique is a tool to guide you to your own style. So far I am with you, BongoBoy, I have studied the tapes and I have some patterns that I can do. I am sure that taking lessons is a good idea. Give a teacher a chance. It takes about 6 lessons to learn something, you never get it the first time lesson. Open yourself up, empty your self knowledge and keep an open mind. There is always room for knowledge. If you don't think you are advancing let the teacher know you want to do more. If you get bored and think they don't have a clue, you can move onto someone else. But you will still take something they taught you with you. I took lessons from a flute teacher who loved to practice 'whistle' tones. First she would make me practice with just the head joint. It was maddning. And she was too methodical took the life out of playing. But the benefit I got from that was I found a sound that I had never gotten on flute and it paid off, suddenly I learned how to conserve my wind and when I really wanted the volume to play loud I had better pitch and more control. I hated it at first. I studied that summer with her and never used that technique again except to see if I could still do it, but it added to my playing. It taught me patience in learning something new that was totally different from what every other teacher wanted me to do.

I want to take lessons. I want to go hear some real players. Listen to everything I can get my hands on. I need to learn percussion in the true since of the word and learn the rudiments that drummers play in their sleep. All this will add to my playing, but good technique is truly passed on my a teacher watching and you watching them. Videos are nice but there is no substitue for a good teacher.

Anyone can beat a drum, you have to decide what you want to accomplish. If you want to really take it to the limit, then you need to get your head right and find a good teacher. Just remember, a good teacher will look at you like a piece of clay, they will give you stuff that is not always exciting but it will add to your technique and improve you overall.

I am looking for a teacher. Anyone have any recommendations for a teacher in Memphis Tn.?

Thank you and good luck!
Congabebe

[JohnnyConga]

Maybe not in Memphis but get in touch with Glen Caruba in Nashville at Pearl Drums. He could probably help you. Or GOTO Lessons4you.com...clik on your state and see if there are any Afro-caribbean drum teachers. I guess it is hard to find a "REAL" drum teacher today. I talk about a teacher that has over 25 years of playing experience with Bands,Orchestras,etc. and has developed a "Method" of teaching that is conducive to "Learning" and not just 'Showing" We in the US have our style of playing and the Cubans have theirs. We have our technique and they have theirs. Just take a little from everybody and then put your signature on it,everybody does it.....Anga doesn't teach ,he shows. Bobby Sanabria Teaches and shows. there is a difference. Most of the Cuban drummers don't know how to teach that I have met in my 16 years here in Miami, a lot of them have come to study with me. Chek out a tape by Kalani from the west coast, he can teach and his videos are well done. The best teachers are the ones you'll never hear of because they don't want to teach,don't have the patience to teach, but know what their talking about. I've met a few of those,also. Videos are ok up to a point, sooner or later you will have to sit down with someone to teach and show you what Mazacote/Afinque is all about when it comes to conga drumming......At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA....Master Drummer.......chek my site at http://www.ShowGigs.com/JohnnyConga PS My first Jimbe Teacher has passed, his name was Richie "Pablo" Landrum a man of great knowledge and dignity, in the Afro-Cuban tradition of drumming and drum making. I will miss him. THANK YOU "PAB"...REST IN PEACE.......

[Bongo Boy]

All very good thoughts and advice. As always, I thank you guys--especially for your extreme patience.

[gav]

Some of the wisest words here. I found a great london based teacher from new york 'joanne roucco'. Shes done some good session work and that.

After 2 lessons i could already go away with a completley different approach to congas. The comment about anybody can hit a drum sort of thing is so true. Some people can keep time, some can hold a basic tumbao. But progresion is through basics, practice and variation. Trying things a different way, getting involved with what your doing rather than just following a pattern.

I hate myself for not pushing harder. I come home, stick on my favorate CDs, and start playing. Sooner or later i reach a part of a song where i want to go further, but lack of training and practice of rudimentary skills holds me back.

A good tutor is like gold dust. At the end of the day its the frustrating, anoying, 'i wanna give up on this' moments that, if worked through can really take you to the next level.

So i stray a little. So what...