Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

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Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby DJBakan » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:29 am

Hello to All,

I wanted to start a little topic about the differences and similarities of these rhythms mentioned: Son Montuno, Guaracha, Changui, Charanga. There is very little information in this forum and I thought maybe people can help out is this topic.
I personally feel kind of comfortable telling one from the other but I am not expert and definitely sometimes I get them mixed up. That is why I would like to get them straight and I am sure there are many people here that also would like to learn more about them.
Here I found some interested videos. Let know which of these are correct or incorrect. Thanks...

http://youtu.be/xUNHfVnH6BE
http://youtu.be/nUOtycd4UsY
http://youtu.be/r4A51RA2IBI
http://youtu.be/FvozUfSUiF0
http://youtu.be/sD59IuGj3UQ
http://youtu.be/U6C4Lm9F3k8

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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby niallgregory » Tue Mar 06, 2012 12:21 pm

I dont get what that timbale part has to do with changui ?
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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby bengon » Tue Mar 06, 2012 3:00 pm

It's a part for modern Changüi. Elio Revé y su Charangón started this new style, as is my understanding.
Last edited by bengon on Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby Thomas Altmann » Tue Mar 06, 2012 6:12 pm

Hi DJ,

first off, these are not rhythms but musical styles, each of which has its own history, rhythmical characteristics, typical instrumentations, etc etc... Charanga refers to an instrumentation/orchestra type primarily, for example. I suggest you try to find information material for each of these (and other) styles independently, without trying to relate or compare them to each other. Eventually you will understand the differences more thoroughly, and perhaps you will also understand why it is very hard to answer your question in a satisfactory way out of the blue.

http://www.timba.com is a great resource. Check Ben Lapidus for info on Changüí. Ned Sublette's "Cuba and It's Music" is always recommendable. The musical style originally associated with Charanga (Francesa) is Danzón. Famous Charangas are/have been: Orquesta de Antonio Romeu, Arcaño y sus Maravillas, Orquesta Aragón, Fajardo y su Charanga, Estrellas Cubanas and Ritmo Oriental (and many, many more). The man most commonly regarded as the creator of Son Montuno (although there might have been others) is Arsenio Rodríguez. He also was responsible for establishing the orchestration formate called Conjunto. There's a whole book out about Arsenio: http://www.amazon.de/Arsenio-Rodriguez- ... 346&sr=1-1 .

You will also realize that Charangas play Sones and Guarachas, as well as Conjuntos playing Guarachas, Boleros, and even Cha-Cha-Chá.

So good luck! I (for one) will happily be at your service for more specific questions.

Thomas

P.S.: As to the videos; The conga tumbao called "Charanga" was named after the orchestra type. According to José Eladio Amat and Curtis Lanoue, "The charanga pattern comes from the style in which charangas francesas played the son". However, there are enough Charanga tunes that do not use this type of tumbao. This is just one tumbao variation, same as the single-conga-pattern on one of your videos: Changuito associates that one with Son Montuno; it's just a way to play the tumbao! Your standard conga tumbao or ride pattern may be called tumbao or marcha, but also Son, Mambo, or Guaracha, because these are the styles to which the same tumbao is applied. -TA
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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby Derbeno » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:48 am

niallgregory wrote:I dont get what that timbale part has to do with changui ?



Hahaha, I was going to post the exactly that Niall,but then thought "nah, why bother.." :roll:
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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby DJBakan » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:05 pm

Hey Thomas,

Thanks for the info and advice. You never fail to inform us.

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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Mar 07, 2012 3:31 pm

DJ,

you're welcome; I'm happy when I can help. There has always been a considerable amount of confusion within Afro-Cuban terminologies, not only in music.

By the way, I never really understood why Elio Revé called his music Changüí. Was it out of patriotism? Only because he hailed from Guantanamo, the cradle of ("real") Changüí?

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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby FidelsEyeglasses » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:54 pm

For anyone interested, Ben's book lays it all out.
I respect and admire Ben's authoritative knowledge re: Changüi history/Son/forms etc.
A superb resource. If you can't afford the book, it can most likely be found in the public library.

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Ben Lapidus' excellent work.
Vintage, classic and contemporary Cuban tumbadoras a.k.a. congas and bongoes made in Cuba:
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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby davidpenalosa » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:37 am

There has been a lot of confusion surrounding traditional changui, because of the fact that Elio Reve named his creative invention with the same name. However, Ben Lapidus, who as Mark points out, is an authority on folkloric changui, does cite some discernable changui traits in the Guantanamo-born musician's music.

"The influence of changui as performed in Guantanamo is more easily audible in [Reve's] earlier recordings than in later efforts. A number of songs begin with the violin playing a llamada de montuno before the band enters in a sort of ejecucion colectiva, as in traditional changui. Reve always plays the five-stroke roll [on timbales], traditionally played by changui bongo players. Some listeners have argued that Reve's [timbale] solo improvisations consist of changui bongo riffs, and I have found this to be true"—Lapidus (2008: 116).

If you would like to hear the traditional five-stroke roll, and improvisations of the bongó el monte of changüí, check out this recording I produced in 2000. It features Juan Garzon Brown on bongó and Miguel Bernal on marímbula.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CvxWYQSHUYg
Last edited by davidpenalosa on Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby Quinto Governor II » Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:43 am

Derbeno wrote:
niallgregory wrote:I dont get what that timbale part has to do with changui ?



Hahaha, I was going to post the exactly that Niall,but then thought "nah, why bother.." :roll:




That timbale pattern has a groove similar to pilon to my ears.
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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby Thomas Altmann » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:35 pm

Thank you, Mark & David. Lapidus' book is not likely to be found in libraries in Germany, so the text quotation is exactly what I was looking for.

I have spent a small fortune on books recently, but all of them concerning Yoruba culture and religion. Meanwhile, I have built a decent library about this subject; but given my interest in Cuban music and Jazz as well, I find it impossible to attempt the same in these fields, although I'd love to. And reading is not everything, after all.

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Re: Son Montuno vs Guaracha vs Changui vs Charanga

Postby rhythmrhyme » Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:44 pm

Thomas Altmann wrote:Thank you, Mark & David. Lapidus' book is not likely to be found in libraries in Germany, so the text quotation is exactly what I was looking for.

I have spent a small fortune on books recently, but all of them concerning Yoruba culture and religion. Meanwhile, I have built a decent library about this subject; but given my interest in Cuban music and Jazz as well, I find it impossible to attempt the same in these fields, although I'd love to. And reading is not everything, after all.

Thomas


This is another very interesting thread - I have often been confused between rhythms and musical styles over the years. The nickel really dropped quite a while back when I finally came to understand the salsa was just that, a blend of different things (rhythms).

@ Thomas - I hear you on the reading thing! What I'd give for a USB upload. With all of our technology and access to information, the slowest interface is becoming my ability to synthesize everything I have access to. This has gotta change!! where's the technology when you need it...
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