stiffness in arms and hands - anybody getting any stiffness from playi

[Seisporocho]

Hi everyone!

I am sure this topic has been discussed a hundred times before bu there are so many discussions on this site, I would have to scam 50 pages before finding it. So here it is...

I play for an afro-latin funk band in Miami,FL. It's a 10 piece band and as a percussionist I am always fighting against the wall of sound coming from the horns, guitars (two) and drummer (hard hitter) to be heard.

I know technique is important and I think mine is not all that bad even though it can always improve. I've been playing for 8 years and can get decent slaps and tones out of almost anything.
I realize that my problem could be that I don't like synthetic skins and always use real rawhides.

I am showing signs of muscle stiffness throughout my arms, especially in the forearms and also swollen fingers. The joints on my fingers hurt many a times and no, I'm not hitting the edge of the drum to get that.

I just wanted to know if it's dehydration, lack of minerals or vitamins, maybe it's simply ridiculous to think I could get away with rawhide in a band like this, is there anything I can drink ? , etc.

Also I am seeing blue line in three of my fingernails on my right hand (I'm righty). Anybody know what that's all about?

peace

[Diceman]

Sounds like you cant hear yourself!
Check out a former thread in Congaset and Accessories-Mics! Boom or Attached to the drum!
started by Onile.
Sorry I havent figured how to attach links.

Sabor
Diceman

[onile]

Alafia Abures!
I hope that you are well and in an abundance of blessings!

Thanks Abure Diceman, I haven't figured out how to post the "link" to the topic either, but I would recommend Abure Seisporocho that you review it for some insight on mics and pre-mixers.

Here also is a drink that I just learned about yesterday, I contacted another provider for a free 30day supply, but I'm sure if you read about it and want to try it, you might be able to find it reasonably priced somewhere online.
I called the company yesterday and they are sending me a "free" 30day supply to try out. (800) 460-3702.

The mix is called SuperRed, read up on it at the following website and see if it appeals to you. I was listening to a Radio Talk Show out here yesterday, and was struck with the significance of the many natural health elements in it. All fruits, green tea, blah! blah! blah!

http://www.cactuscanyon.com/super-reds.htm

Buena Suerte!

Onile!



Edited By onile on 1158779240

[Jongo]

Hey Seisporocho, theses are probably things that you have probably already thought of but I will throw them out there just in case. How much time do you spend warming up? Are you stretching your forearms before you play to be ready to perform and then afterwards to help you recover. It sounds like you are having to strain to be heard and so you are playing harder and it is taking its toll on your hands and fingers. The more relaxed you muscles are the better you will play and you won't have to play so hard to get the sound you need. I was having some similar problems and I have had to focus on warming up stretching, massage and even an ice pack every once in awhile to be good to go. Drink as much water as you can. Drinking enough water is really good for your joints and muscles and will help them recover.

[pavloconga]

Hey Siesporocho,
Just a few suggestions:

First, I think warming up and stretching is very important. Not just your hands but your upper body, shoulders, neck etc.

I think good technique and being relaxed while playing is very important. Sounds like you are hitting very hard and probably 'incorrectly' if your fingers are going blue. I think there is a way of playing hard without damaging your body. Seek out a master player and study their technique. Arnica ointment is good for bruises but prevention is always better than a cure.

Get your volume turned up or get the other musicians turned down.
Recently Los Van Van played here, their volume was full and dynamic, but not ear splitting like so many bands. Every instrument could be heard very clearly.

As a percussionist I have never used fibreskins in a gig and have always found a way to correct sound/volume issues..

You say " I am always fighting against the wall of sound coming from the horns guitars.." etc. I think there's your problem right there. Sounds like the band may be playing too loud (a common problem) and not considering you as the percussionist to be just as essential as them in the overall sound mix (another common problem).

Sometimes we percussionists have to stand up for ourselves to be heard, as sometimes, (through ignorance) there are some musicians that don't consider us to be as important as them in the music.
We need to educate them!
cheers
Pavlo

[whitemanplay]

I would say the same maybe your hitting too hard. But if you have been playing for 8 years and your just coming up with these problems maybe age and your body getting older is playing a part in the reason all this is just popping up. That are you have just started playing in this loud band.

I use synthetic heads on my 2nd set of drums I gig with and they are a little better as far as sound goes, but something I noticed about them is they are loud up to a certain degree then its like you have hit the climax of its sound and if you hit it harder it just gets a deader tone and not really all that much louder then natural skins. Synthetics can help somewhat dont get me wrong but only to a certain degree I still fight the same problem as you with the loud drummer and guitarist.

Previous posters hit it right maybe your micing and sound guy needs a tune up, also watch how much stress your putting your hands and arms through and im sure that would help.

[OLSONGO]

6x8 goood warm up, stretching, correct techinique, exellent posture, sitting or standing up, proper breathing and water, water, water.
Warm up= get those blood cells going.
Stretching= eliminates stiffing and tendinitis.
Correct tech.= the right techer will correct the bad habits, sometimes we develop them and don't know it.
Exellent posture= keeps you relaxed and if sitting down keep back up and straight , so there is no pressure to the kidneys, this will tire you quick.
Proper breathing= breath with your diaphragm also, not only with your lungs, this will keep your cells replenished with oxigen, and takes big part in playing hard, fast and relaxed.
Water= eliminates dehydration and keeps the toxins moving out of your body, that will also tire you fast.
And also watch what you eat, there is a lot of junk out there that will put a lot of toxins in your body, so if you don't do the right thing . you are defeating the purpose.
Do you smoke?
Do not forget those mics. and tell the band about dynamics, also I personally go from congas to some bongo, shekere,campanas, etc mix it up. I also found out that playiong 3 congas balances the playing from let to right nicelly.

Paz, Amor Y Rumba OLSONGO



Edited By OLSONGO on 1158795779

[bdrbongo]

I experienced something similar in a band I was in about 12 years ago. The problem... too much volume. No one was listening to each other. The band self destructed due to that and I made a point of telling any band since that LISTENING is the key. Where you are situated on stage can make a difference also. I try to stay away from the guitars and horns. Those frequencies are dangerous. I use natural heads so I bring my own mics and a small mixer if I think the club won't have enough channels fo me. I also invested in a personal monitor system. They have come down in price and you can find them on ebay. If there is any chance of the gig getting too loud for me to hear without destroying my hands, I use my in-ear system. Most soundmen(or women) are more then happy to eliminate the monitor wedge that I would have been using. That means less noise in the air for them to deal with.
I agree with all the other suggestions about warming up, stretching, hydration, proper diet, no smoking ('cept the ocassional cigar), but in the end if you can't hear yourself, you tend to play harder so you can.

[ABAKUA]

Hey all,

as said, apart from proper technique, and hitting too hard, being warmed up and stretched before a gig or lengthy playing is important.

Type in the word 'stretching' into the search function, you get alot of information.

Check out this thread for good advice and info:
http://www.congaplace.com/cgi-bin....


Then there are all of these in this link:
http://www.congaplace.com/cgi-bin....



Edited By ABAKUA on 1158803765

[Seisporocho]

wow....this is why I love this site!

I posted the "stiffness" topic a couple days back and went away for the weekend and was blown away the amount of replies I got!
I am so glad to have this site as a source of help.

So before I forget, THANKS to all of you.

I think the problem is everything you guys mentioned. The band IS NOT listening to eachother. The guitarists have their volume control an inch away from their pinkies and I know for a fact that if anyone else plays a little louder, they are the first ones to raise their volume. It's ridiculous since we've had volume issue discussions since I've been in the band (2yrs) and nothing is being done. It's like, once everybody is on stage, everything discussed goes right out the window. Nobody is willing to take responsibility for being too loud.

I also made the mistake of playing for a very long time with a Shure 57 and that IS NOT the mic to use when micing more than one drum! I am now using a 58 and its better. I'll check the micing forum!

Another observation is that since the volume control was never dealt with correctly, the majority of the band has taken ear plugs as a solution to the problem. Now it seems everyone is playing louder so they can hear themselves thru the ear plugs! I tried ear plugs but then I REALLY cant hear the congas well.

I can't remember which one of you mentioned the phenomenon on how bands dont really consider the percussion as important as the other instruments but I agree with that a 100%. I find myself getting into arguments with band members because they don't realize one (as a percussionist) is banging away like an animal just be heard a bit and imposing self damage in the process. It's unbelievable how even for space on stage I have to put my foot down sometimes!

Quite honestly, if the volume doesn't come down, I'll have to bail. I dont think the solution to the problem is buying a bunch of equipment and mixers etc. The volume problem affects the ears tremendously and I am noticing that the more I stay in this band. It's a shame cause I love playing this music. Fusions of Cumbia, salsa-funk,afrobeat,bomba, plena...you know. But I rather keep my ears and enjoy making music in a project that understands the beauty of keeping it low while still being heard. Like the Los Van Van example someone mentioned.

Besides, I don't think I can play with synthetics anyway. I just ordered some Nuskyns to try them out (still waiting for their arrival) but I know I might end up selling them and keeping my rawhides! I got some nasty venezuelan cowhide that I doubt I'll want to give up!

As far as the breathing and stretching, I'm all about it! I haven't been doing enough of it in the past, but as of my last gig, I applied it more than ever and it improved my playing by alot. Excited to explore it more in its entirety.

I have definitely been more water conscious (especially cause I like having a few beers when I play) and will focus on doing it as much as I can. I've been buying bottled-water cases for home and I drink them all day!

I don't smoke cigarrettes but the smoke in some of these places is ridiculous. I feel like I smoked a pack at the end of the night. It's a serious issue for me. I hate it.

Again, Thanks everyone for replies. It was info I needed to hear!

Abakua: I'm headed into the "stretching" topic right now to read more on all of this! Thanks.

peace
Seisporocho

[OLSONGO]

Besides the stretching, the sound equipment, and the environment.... I think your band is really missing the point. Being part of a band is not about becoming a superhero through volume. The impotant thing here is the MUSIC and if there is no DYNAMICS the music sounds flat and people soon get tire of it, but you know sometimes you are in a croud where the people don't give a sh..t , they just want to drink, smoke, try to dance drunk and get a piece of ass, and all you are is background music no matter how loud it is.
Can't stand clubs, bars, cafes and their owners you just don't get appreciated. Nothing like a concert or festival scene and best of all... the recording studio.

Paz OLSONGO



Edited By OLSONGO on 1159216537

[JohnnyConga]

Yo Seis por Ocho ...can I ask where in Miami a 10 piece Funk band is gonna play?.....Just curious....."JC" Johnny Conga...former Miamian....

[OLSONGO]

JC I would like to ask the same question. It just puzzles me that a city with so mush latin influence and other cultures lets itself be run by dj's. The cubans with their deep roots in music, and i know they are divided in half before and after the revolution; can't demand that the music be what it should be... a more social thing. And you can't tell me that there is no money to support it, I know is there, you see it. A new performing arts center is comming up as a matter of fact, Patato, Gio and the other scapes me..are supposed to play there soon.

PS: JC, buy chance in NY did you play with Andy Delannoy, bass player .

[Seisporocho]

Ha! Good question JohnnyConga!

You know, you and I met close to 6 years ago. It was my first night in Miami and my friends took me to a club called Groove Jet (sound familiar?) I was coming from Puerto Rico and had been playing congas for only two years.
You were the percussionist for the club back then and after a couple of drinks, I wanted to play so you let me. I took the tumba (there was another kid on the tres-dos too), you were on the quinto and we did a rumba for a while. You thought I had real talent (which was flattering at the time) and gave me your card to call you for private lessons. I'll never forget that ****, it was a great introduction to miami.
Even though I never called you for lessons, I saw you play a couple of times here and there and then you moved to Washington. All I know is that you were the only cat down here still doing mambo and had your own orchestra keeping it real. I can imagine why you took off eventually, cause there's just no love for live music in Miami! And noone pays for it...especially an orchestra.
As a matter of fact, I worked for The Office of International Affairs for the Florida State Dept. and threw an event where we had over a 1,000 youths from Argentina come to miami and do a concert at the Bayfront Park Amphitheatre. We had to choose a band so I gave you a call to ask how much you'd play for (you're price was $1,500 back then - a bargain in my opinion)but unfortunately the UnderSecretary of State decided to go with a blues band called Iko Iko (bad move!) Nothing against them, just that Argentines get plenty of blues in Arg. and some mambo would've been more interesting for them.
Anyway, to answer your question - Suenalo plays anywhere. To give you an idea of how we are able to adapt to any stage size, we've been playing every weekend at Jazid for two years! Yeah! The famous 5' by 6' stage where even a 6 piece even fits, we manage to work it!! What happens is that we have our MC off stage in front of the door, then our sax and trombone players also off-stage between the bar and the stage, and one of two guitarists off the stage dead center in front of the stage. The stage is only half a foot off the ground so in the end, the band manages to still look quite uniform.
Other than that place, we've played at I/O (downtown), Studio A (downtown), Paco's Tavern (that little bar on 34th and Collins - that's where we started 4 years ago- now it's the new Cafe Nostalgia)**which btw, Philbert is doing some serious Rumba with his group AINA the first Sunday of the month. He uses Wickly on quinto alot.***, Transit Lounge (729 sw 1st ave.), Tobacco Rd (upstairs), Bullfrog Eatz (new place on 24st and ne 2 ave), Moksha Family performing center (new on 59st and ne 2ave), recently played at the new Parrot Jungle (on the causeway to Sobe - first band to ever play there), and other than those places, we play Miracle on the Mile, Calle Ocho Festival, Latin Funk Festival, Langerado, Revolution, etc. The list continues.
In all of these venues, some adjusting is necessary and we are used to it. It is not always comfortable but we get paid and have a blast.
Bro, Miami is slowly changing and there is growth happening as we speak. A year ago, we would play for $500 bucks (basically for the love of music) and now we don't play for less than $1000 on weekly gigs. It's still miserable but it is improving and there is more demand every day. We've had feature articles on the New TImes, Ocean Drive, City Link, MAXIM en espanol, etc. all in a month a half span! Before, noone gave a ****. So it's cool to see that going on.
Who knows, maybe one day you'll find this place has more to offer to you finally and you can move back to the sunny state!!
Hope all is well JC!
peace
ps- Check out www.suenalomusic.com There you'll see the schedule. Don't pay attention to the percussion on the audio tracks cause they suck and they're NOT ME! I moved to PR for a year and just got back so those recordings have a weak conguero on them and I am dying to take those tracks into the studio so they're done justice!)



Edited By Seisporocho on 1159411428