ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

If you don't find a specific forum, post your message here (please read all the forum list first).

ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby Omelenko1 » Fri May 14, 2010 1:27 am

This Cuban Master rumba table that settled in the USA had 5 legs at one point in time. It was very strong and very stable. The five legs were Mongo Santamaria, Jesus Maria neighborhood in La Habana, Candido Camero, Cerro neighborhood in La Habana, Armando Peraza, Lawton neighborhood in La Habana, Carlos Patato Valdes, Los Sitios neighborhood in La Habana and Francisco Aguabella, La Marina neighborhood in Matanzas. In order of age.

It's very difficult in the year 2010 for this Cuban Masters rumba table to stand with only 2 of its 5 legs left, those being Candido and Armando.

Dario
Omelenko1
 
Posts: 1170
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:33 am

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby ABAKUA » Fri May 14, 2010 2:17 am

Sad but inevitable truth.
Thats why its up to the new generations to continue holding up the table, and if the likes of Pedrito Martinez and other young guns the likes of Adonis Calderon, Papiosco, Papacho and so many countless others, then the table will continue to be held up with ease and pride.
User avatar
ABAKUA
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: Earth

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri May 14, 2010 2:58 am

Those 5 lived during a very special time. As congueros we owe so much to them. I am constantly grateful that my city was home to 3 of them.
Mongo Santamaria, Armando Peraza and Francisco Aguabella all called San Francisco home. Of course Armando still lives very close to here in San Mateo.
User avatar
bongosnotbombs
 
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:17 am
Location: San Francisco, Ca

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby jorge » Fri May 14, 2010 1:06 pm

I agree with Abakua. Also, I think from a commercial perspective those 5 Dario named are the most famous, but there are others who were just as important or even more important for the survival and development of the rumba in the US. In this group I would add Papaito Muñoz, who was a major force in the NYC rumba scene in the 60s and 70s, and actually played quinto on some of the songs on Patato y Totico's album that people assume were Patato playing quinto. The rumba in the US changed big time after Mariel in 1980 ("Somos los Cubanos que venimos invadiendo,... la timba no es como ayer..."), and the 2 most important Cubans responsible for that were Daniel Ponce and Orlando Puntilla Rios. During the 80s when all of these Cubans were alive and playing in the US, I would say it was actually Daniel Ponce and Puntilla who contributed the most to upping the level of rumba in the US, more than Mongo, Armando, Francisco, Patato, or Candido. Different generation, timba nueva, but in the development of the rumba, same or higher level of musicianship and creativity.
Of course, the primary source of rumba has always been, and continues to be, in Cuba, not NYC, Union City, San Francisco or Miami. Ignoring the artificial political boundaries caused by Cuba/US politics, we are seeing a major change in rumba in Cuba with the guarapachangueo / mambochambo / jiribilla styles now being played almost exclusively. The young generation of rumberos in Cuba now, eg Adonis Panter Calderon and his groups including Yoruba Andabo and La Timba Encendida, and members of Los Chinitos, Clave y Guaguanco, Rumberos de Cuba, and the latest incarnation of Los Muñequitos are all creating new forms of rumba. They are way ahead of what we are doing in the US, even including the recent post-balsero influx of Cuban rumberos here like Sandy Perez, Pedro Martinez, and Roman Diaz. So, with all respect to Armando and Candido plus all the ancestors who have passed, the rumba is getting new legs, both in the US, and especially, in Cuba. Que nunca muera la rumba cubana. Aprendan y siguen pa'lante (con clave, of course!)
jorge
 
Posts: 1046
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:47 am
Location: Teaneck, NJ

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri May 14, 2010 2:28 pm

The incredible contributions from these 5 go way beyond folklore and rumba. Boogaloo, salsa, experimental folkloric fusion, latin jazz, jazz, rock, movie soundtracks, funk, pop, original compositions, these 5 congueros did it all and they did it first. Of course they were incredible rumberos, and afro-cuban players but their influence spread across so many different genres which I feel is their greatest achievement.
User avatar
bongosnotbombs
 
Posts: 2869
Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:17 am
Location: San Francisco, Ca

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby Omelenko1 » Fri May 14, 2010 5:03 pm

Of course I'm aware of Papaito, tremendo rumbero, who I had the pleasure to know personally. I also knew Julito Collazo, Virgilio Marti and later on had the pleasure of developing a friendship with Daniel and Puntilla, both incredible quinto players. But the 5 pioneers mentioned originally, that came to "La Yuma" (USA) after Chano and carried the torch ignited by him, did everything there was to do musically outside of Cuba. May God bless Candito and Armando so that we can enjoy them for a while longer!

Dario
Omelenko1
 
Posts: 1170
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:33 am

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby davidpenalosa » Fri May 14, 2010 7:04 pm

I agree with the importance of the "5 legged table." I'd like to point out however, before Chano, Mongo, Patato, Candido and Francisco came to the US, Carlos Vidal Bolado was already here. Carlos recorded the first authentic folkloric rumbas (circa 1948, Ritmo Afro-Cubano series on SMC) and played on the first Afro-Cuban jazz recordings (early 40s with Machito). Vidal later joined the Miguelito Valdés orchestra and also played on recordings by Mongo Santamaria, Dizzy Gillespie, Dexter Gordon and Cal Tjader. Unfortunately that's all I've been able to learn about him.

The Ritmo Afro-Cubano recordings were mentioned in an earlier post. Here they are if you want to listen:

http://www.zeno-okeanos.com/rumba-1947.html

To me, one of the things that's so special about all of these rumberos is that they are/were our link to rumba in the first half of the 20th century, the days when rumba was played on boxes, "son clave" was used (Havana) and the segundo was sounded on the three-side. They were there when rumba evolved into what we now consider "old school." They came from the older school.
-David
User avatar
davidpenalosa
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:44 pm
Location: CA

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby Omelenko1 » Fri May 14, 2010 7:45 pm

Carlos Vidal Bolado, Machito's first tumbador has always intrigued me. I really liked his playing, but not much information is available about him. I asked Mongo several times about him, but never got much from Mongo, I gathered they were not close. I asked Luis Miranda when he lived in Miami about him, Luis just told me he had taken his place in Machito's band.
John "Dandy" Rodriguez has a photo of the "Black Diamonds" performing at Teatro Puerto Rico in Spanish Harlem in the late 40's. To my surprise it list Carlos Vidal Bolado as one of them, when all along I thought the originals were Mongo and Armando. In the lat 60's I got an album by the Jazz Crusaders "Chili Con Soul" and the conguero was Carlos Vidal. His playing in this album was very tasty and it impressed me, much like Mongo and Armando.

I know that Carlos Vidal Bolado came to the US before the ones from the 5 legged table and probably before Chano, who came in late '46. In my years of research, I've tried to find a family member of Carlos Vidal, but have been unsuccessful. At this point in time only 3 people come to mind that can expand on Vidal Bolado, those being Armando Peraza, Candido Camero and Luis Miranda. Graciela Grillo (Machito's sister) was another source, but she recently passed. I know Carlos Vidal passed in LA in the early 90's. Those SMC albums posted by David Penaloza sound really authentic. Old school good rumba.

Dario
Omelenko1
 
Posts: 1170
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:33 am

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby davidpenalosa » Fri May 14, 2010 8:22 pm

Hi Dario,
Just to be clear, the Carlos Vidal Ritmo Afro-Cubano clips were posted by Myron Ort aka Zeno ("Xeno") Okeanos. I think that Armando was recently in the hospital with internet access because for a couple of weeks he was posting multiple times a day on the Yahoo Latinjazz group. Here are a couple of excerpts relative to this thread:

"I still remember when [Candido], Mongo and I were young guys in Havana and Francisco Aguabella over in Matanzas.

All four of us had regular gigs by day and were ripping it up, playing our tambores at the nightclubs all night long. By day, Mongo was a mailman, Candido worked at the super mercado and I sold fruits /veg's and had a loan shark business on the side with my cousin. And anyone wondering where Francisco attained his physical strength and endurance, he worked as a longshoreman and would be lifting 300lb sacks all day long, alongside the stoic sindicato de Abacua, who controlled the waterfront at that time.

. . . When I returned to Cuba in 2002, one of the most surprising things to me was how integrated la rumba y la religion Africano was into everyday Cuban life. Whether people met me for the first time or if I was with my family, nobody wanted to see me play drums but they did demand to see how I danced rumba. It was a challenge thrown to me to prove that I was still Cuban...to prove that I still had my Afro-Cubanismo. By the way, I passed every test!"


I'm finishing up with the layout to my next book Rumba Quinto and so I emailed Armando privately, respectively requesting more info on this bygone era. I haven't heard back from him and he hasn't posed anything since Francisco's death. We would all certainly benefit from in-depth interviews with Armando and Candido about the old days. There is surprisingly very little written on the subject.
-David
User avatar
davidpenalosa
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:44 pm
Location: CA

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby guarachon63 » Fri May 14, 2010 11:44 pm

dario wrote:

In my years of research, I've tried to find a family member of Carlos Vidal, but have been unsuccessful.


Perhaps unsurprisingly these days, they are all on facebook now:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/group.php?gid=131835966999&ref=ts

Saludos
Barry
===================================
http://esquinarumbera.blogspot.com
User avatar
guarachon63
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:12 pm
Location: New York

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby guarachon63 » Sat May 15, 2010 12:09 am

David wrote:

We would all certainly benefit from in-depth interviews with Armando and Candido about the old days. There is surprisingly very little written on the subject.


Hear, hear. Martin Cohen did some interviews with Armando "Pereza" (as it says in the credits to the first video, ouch!) that he put up on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch#!v=OlZy6nZUmbU

But going back to his beginnings he doesn't say anything about rumba at all, he just goes right into the band stuff.

David wrote:
I think that Armando was recently in the hospital with internet access because for a couple of weeks he was posting multiple times a day on the Yahoo Latinjazz group.


No disrespect to Armando, but do you really think that was him writing all that stuff? Maybe he has a personal assistant or something but I can't imagine a 90 year old Cuban in the hospital typing out all that flawless English and yet miss the gender agreement of something like "la religion Africano." Makes me a bit suspicious.
===================================
http://esquinarumbera.blogspot.com
User avatar
guarachon63
 
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:12 pm
Location: New York

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby davidpenalosa » Sat May 15, 2010 6:20 am

Good point Barry. I missed that, not being a Spanish speaker. I was impressed with what seemed to be Armando's command of English. It didn't occur to me that someone else would be writing that and signing it "Armando." Maybe that's why I didn't get a reply. :?:

Thanks a million for the Facebook page by Carlos Vidal's son. This is truly timely as I'm laying out my skinny bio on his dad tonight. I would love to have some more on this important, yet obscure conguero.
-David
User avatar
davidpenalosa
 
Posts: 1151
Joined: Sun May 29, 2005 6:44 pm
Location: CA

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby Anonimo » Sun May 16, 2010 10:48 am

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR
Anonimo
 

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby Omelenko1 » Sun May 16, 2010 9:37 pm

You got it Cuco, Teatro Puerto Rico in D' Bronx, remember I'm from La Saguesera here inLittle Havana. Have never lived in th Apple. You are correct is Graciela Perez, Macho's sister. Who sang with Anacaona in the 30's before coming north.

Saludos,

Dario
Omelenko1
 
Posts: 1170
Joined: Wed Jul 23, 2008 12:33 am

Re: ONLY 2 LEGS LEFT IN THE 5 LEGGED CUBAN MASTERS RUMBA TABLE

Postby Anonimo » Mon May 17, 2010 12:27 am

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR
Anonimo
 

Next

Return to Open Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests