Dealing with sound techs who know nada about congas!

[pavloconga]

Hi guys,
I've played 6 gigs in the last week, from funk, to jazz to salsa, and most of the sound techs were pretty good, and provided enough amping.

The last gig, I was asked at about a day's notice to play as a guest percussionist with an 8 piece funk band, a band that I had not played with previously. It was at a small-medium size outdoor event on Australia Day eve to about 250 people. There were 5 bands on the night and a pretty powerful sound system, big stacks of Marshall amps, body shaking bass volume like you wouldn't believe – yet the sound guy did not want to even mike up my percussion setup!

He said, "I don't usually mic up the bongos (!) … and look… the drummers drum kit toms are not miked up." To which I replied, "Yeah but mate, I'm playing these with my hands not sticks. And I'm standing in front of a massive bass amp" (the bass was so loud I needed ear plugs shoved deep in my ears)

I eventually got my congas miked up - but I had to insist on it and even then it was barely adequate with him only providing 1 mic between the 2 and leaving the 3rd unmiked.

I'm interested what other people's experience is?

Are we as percussionists all around the world often getting the short end of the stick when it comes to having our percussion set ups miked up?

How do you guys respond to the lack of knowledge/ignorance/and sometimes just downright laziness displayed by some sound techs about miking congas and percussion?

cheers
Pavlo

[davidpenalosa]

If it's a band that I direct, I always have two people from the band (me usually being one of them) go out into the audience during the soundcheck to help the soundman get our mix right. That's my responsibility. Most of the time the congas are too low in the mix. I've insisted that that band be reasonably balanced in the house.

If I've been hired to play in a band that I don't direct, I don't typically insert myself into the the issue of the house mix. I feel that I do however, have a say about the monitor mix. I expect to be able to hear myself on stage. If the drum set is miked, then I expect to be miked; as you say, we don't play with sticks. If the drummer is not miked though, I am prepared to play acoustically with the traps player, even if I'm buried in the house mix.

If I wanted to be certain that I had a a definite level of volume on stage and in the house, relative to the other instruments, I would talk to the band leader before set-up and make my case. With the leader's support, I would then approach the engineer as soon as I loaded in. I'd say something like "We mic our congas because we like them up in the mix." And I would offer my help. It's great of you have someone in the band who can play your drums while you listen to them in the house. What I would try to avoid is making my case to the soundperson when they have already figured out their game plan and are at the point where they are stringing cables. It probably would be better to bring just two congas too, since it can be miked with one microphone.
-David

[ABAKUA]

In my 16 yrs of performing professionally, Ive not had an issue - not even once.
Ive toured my city, state, country and even performed overseas, yet never had an issue. NIghtclubs, Jazz Bars, Festivals, Corportate events, Weddings, Birthdays, etc, never had an issue.
Every band I have ever worked with has been a professional ensemble and if not already known to the venue/sound tech, a sound/stage plan is provided in advance to the gig so the soundy is well aware of what is required. And in the more serious/established bands I have worked with, we travel/gig with our own personal sound engineer. When the band is booked, he is booked also an an additional member of the band.
I have never had to supply my own mics/sound equip etc either - I dont even own my own set, I have zero need for it nor have I ever required my own set.
Now if you are booked for a gig where the band is required to supply its own sound equipment etc, we charge extra for this. Either enough to cover the hire of all equipment necessary, plus our own sound guy, plus a small profit to cover the hassle. Alternatively, it is customary that if you are an established band leader, you would own sufficient mics/stands, mixer etc And this is also charged in addition if required for the gig.

Maybe it depends in the types of bookings circle you work in, mine have predominantly been high profile, professional organisations, where the sound team/venue management are there to work for YOU the performer and have the best interest of the performer and audience in mind.

Or maybe we have grown used to being able to flex our muscle round town!

Pavlo, maybe you should move to Sydney!

[Tonio]

Pavlo,

Since you were hired as a percussionist, you should have questioned the venue and what is involved with the stage / setup, and perhaps as to what type of show it was. Since you mentioned that there were 5 bands in all, perhaps you could have inquired about the venue's sponsor.i.e. were the funds were coming from. Due to some missing info, I can only guess what the function was. If the funds you received is a good level I wouldn't worry about it, unless you have a issue of degrading your exposure. Save your hands bro, it you can't be heard, the band probably isn't worth it. You are there to perform, not the the sound guy.
That said, most multiple band type shows (for 250 audience) the sponsors usually hire the sound company based on the budget. Could be word of mouth or previous transactions basis. If you've been gigging around, you probably know some of the sound companies in town and can guess as to how you will be treated, and how they work. Most of these multiple band shows that I've experienced get the low ball sound companies in town, and normally cater to rock n roll/pop genre's. I bet that the bass, kick drum, and vocals drowned everything out Most of those type's the sound guy cannot here much of anything anymore or is hung over from the previous night, or possibly on drugs. I played at a street fest quite a few times for trying to sell the band exposure. Once such event , when we were setting up, our bassist (electric) needed a power cable for his amp. Long story short, there was a short in the mains and it shorted out his amp poof !! He had to use our keyboardist amp... nice work guys !!
But , yes most of the time us percussionists get the short end of the stick. It just depends on the venue and what type of exposure/budget is involved.

Sometimes it is disheartening, but look at the bright side : the top percussionists in the world can be treated that way.e.g. In a funk band, percussion is not the main focus.

T

[niallgregory]

This is a subject that i have brought up in the past . its actually a relief that someone else has experienced the same problem After hundreds of gigs over the last few years i have lots of good and lots of bad experiences with sound engineers ! Depending on the genre of music being played , i.e a latin or afro beat or something thats traditionaly percussive music with congas etc its been fine . Its the more pop style gigs the present larger problems for me tbh . I came to a decision a while ago that i was never going to play to hard and bust up my hands ever again . This problem also exists on lots of different levels , ive toured all over the world , all over Ireland and the Uk and the same ignorance is still there with sound engineers . The best approach for me was to try and educate the guy about the situation , and if that dosent work punch him in the head

[CongaTick]

I've invested in my own mics (one for each drum) and a small Tapco mixer which gives the sound guy a single output to his PA. I insist that the congas be as loud as the drums. and will not stop until they are mixed to an acceptable level. If you don't bring your own gear you're pretty much at their mercy. If you DO bring your own gear (at least mics and mixer) it's a question of whther you've got enough balls to insist on a proper level to compete.

[CongaTick]

BTW, niallgregory's suggestion is also valid. A punch in the head will also work.

[umannyt]

I've invested in my own mics (one for each drum) and a small Tapco mixer which gives the sound guy a single output to his PA....If you DO bring your own gear (at least mics and mixer) it's a question of whther you've got enough balls to insist on a proper level to compete.

Not to mention that you can discreetly increase the volume of your fader(s) independent of the sound guy.

I, too, have (long) invested in my own mics and mixer. I bought the Shure DMK57-52 consisting of three (3) SM57s and one (1) Beta 52A and a Mackie 1202 VLZ3 Pro. Since I'm also a part-time sound guy who occasionally rents out my complete PA system, my SM57s double up as vocal/instrument mics and the Beta 52A is either my cajon mic or bass drum mic. My Mackie 1202 VLZ3 doubles up as an excellent DJ submixer if I need extra XLR channels in addition to my Allen & Heath Xone 62 DJ mixer which has only two (2) XLR channels.

[congamyk]

There were 5 bands on the night and a pretty powerful sound system, big stacks of Marshall amps, body shaking bass volume like you wouldn't believe – yet the sound guy did not want to even mike up my percussion setup!

He said, "I don't usually mic up the bongos (!) … and look… the drummers drum kit toms are not miked up." To which I replied, "Yeah but mate, I'm playing these with my hands not sticks. And I'm standing in front of a massive bass amp"

Yup ... pretty much 99.99999999999999% of all "sound men".
These clueless dolts will set up 8 mics for the drums and spend a minimum of 10 MINUTES tweaking the bass drum volume.

[ABAKUA]

Unbelievable.... I cant believe what you guys have to put up both in terms of having to deal with the sound technicians and having to supply your own sound. Absolutely ridiculous.

[pavloconga]

This is a subject that i have brought up in the past . its actually a relief that someone else has experienced the same problem After hundreds of gigs over the last few years i have lots of good and lots of bad experiences with sound engineers ! Depending on the genre of music being played , i.e a latin or afro beat or something thats traditionaly percussive music with congas etc its been fine . Its the more pop style gigs the present larger problems for me tbh . This problem also exists on lots of different levels , ive toured all over the world , all over Ireland and the Uk and the same ignorance is still there with sound engineers . The best approach for me was to try and educate the guy about the situation , and if that dosent work punch him in the head

Hi to all, and thanks for your perspectives,
Niall and congatick,
haha... you guys crack me up!
had to laugh hard at the last part of your post!

Thanks for your perspective Niall, yeah I think you hit the nail on the head right there.

Like you say, the latin and percussive gigs are always fine, the sound guys are always into it and know what they are doing. In fact, the majority of gigs I play are no problem. I play a lot of different kinds of music with a lot of different bands, in anything from very small venues where you can barely swing a conga, to as big as you like, and it's just the odd occasion (usually at the 'in between' or small gigs at short notice) where the sound guy has little or no experience with congas.

The band I played with the other night had never even played with a percussionist before and I'd never played with them as a band either.
I think you are right tho - the sound guy was used to miking up rock or pop bands with (by the sound of it) someone flailing away, tippy-tapping on 'bongos'. (Btw, the gig was really great, good musicians and they played with heaps of energy and attitude, I really enjoyed it and the band were really happy with the gig.)

These clueless dolts will set up 8 mics for the drums and spend a minimum of 10 MINUTES tweaking the bass drum volume.

congamyk - hahaa, picture is worth a thousand words - were you at my gig the other night? That pic could've been taken there!

[niallgregory]

great salsa gig last night with a sound engineer who was excellent , he micd up me first and had a great monitor and front of house sound .Credit were its due

[pavloconga]

great salsa gig last night with a sound engineer who was excellent , he micd up me first and had a great monitor and front of house sound .Credit were its due

Good to hear niall,
Good sound engineers are worth their weight. Makes all the difference to enjoying the gigs we play.