How can i land a gig with a band? - what does it take?

[m_three10]

This being my first time posting here at conga place, I am pretty sure I came to the right forum to ask you guys a few things that would really help me propel myself to where I want to be.

This will be a long post, but I’ll post cliffs at the end.
Basically my story goes that I’m a guitarist who has found a passion that competes with guitar playing, in his congas. Early In January of this year I really wanted to learn more, and in that I managed to find an excellent teacher in Edwin Torres. Though his lessons were rather costly and ‘exactly’ one hour. He really showed me the fundamentals of playing (4 hits, the relaxation, the technique of one tumbadora). After some troubles between him and I, I began to venture and continue studying through watching a few instructional videos of Giovanni, changuito, and Bobby Sanabria. Here I learned a lot as well.

What im getting at is that I’m finding is that im learning and understanding a lot of the basic movements and can really see myself playing in a live gig which is my hopes, which is why I am writing this:

* My question to you all, is what does it take for one to play in a live club gig?
* How do I go about joining a salsa group, perhaps one that plays in a club, weddings, or hotels?
* What would be the fundamental movements to have understood before even bothering to tryout for such a group?
* I understand it takes experience, but is there perhaps a fake book or something of that sort where I can find the common salsa pieces being played and have a fond understanding of it?
* Do these gigs pay well?
* What hardware would be necessary besides my congas? (im thinking microphones…)

1. If theres one music that remains sort of mysterious to me, much like classical music... its gotta be salsa. If you were to describe what was going on in salsa music, or the role of the players in a salsa band... what would they be?

2.*What would be the one piece of advice you'd like to leave with a young grasshopper like myself if god forbid it was your time to 'go'...?
i dunno, maybe someone has never asked you that... but i am, and would sincerely like to know.


Thank you.



Edited By m_three10 on 1187215391

[Raymond]

I guess is just like any other player....Somebody has to know you and somebody has to like you...to land gigs...(Unless you are a supervirtuoso and peple tend to not understand them sometimes and/or believe they cannot play in ensemble).

The easiest of the big three, timbale, conga and bongo, is bongo playing but you have to know to play the bell too! However, if you don't have it yet eventually you will not keep the gig for long....(Like in everything there is jealousy and pride involved here...) Believe me! Experience and proficiency in salsa playing shows big time! So, if you do not have it now better start...(Don't know if you are latino or not...if your knowledge of clave and other things do not exist now, recommend you start soon)!

You could cheat your way into a band but you have to be careful...there is no easy answer there...(Normally, helps having a friend who will back you up...The "salsa" scene is weird everywhere and I believe hard now...Is who you know...and believe me...if you are not part of the click with the other musicians, they probably know somebody who can take your gig who is in their click).

A salsa gig how much it pays? Depends on location and the band....It could go for as low as a $60 to $200 if you are a top player with a top band. (If you travel there is more money, etc, etc.....Only one salsa band makes a living out of it and is El Gran Combo...)

Some other comments here will follow...Good luck!

Saludos!

[m_three10]

I guess is just like any other player....Somebody has to know you and somebody has to like you...to land gigs...(Unless you are a supervirtuoso and peple tend to not understand them sometimes and/or believe they cannot play in ensemble).

The easiest of the big three, timbale, conga and bongo, is bongo playing but you have to know to play the bell too! However, if you don't have it yet eventually you will not keep the gig for long....(Like in everything there is jealousy and pride involved here...) Believe me! Experience and proficiency in salsa playing shows big time! So, if you do not have it now better start...(Don't know if you are latino or not...if your knowledge of clave and other things do not exist now, recommend you start soon)!

You could cheat your way into a band but you have to be careful...there is no easy answer there...(Normally, helps having a friend who will back you up...The "salsa" scene is weird everywhere and I believe hard now...Is who you know...and believe me...if you are not part of the click with the other musicians, they probably know somebody who can take your gig who is in their click).

A salsa gig how much it pays? Depends on location and the band....It could go for as low as a $60 to $200 if you are a top player with a top band. (If you travel there is more money, etc, etc.....Only one salsa band makes a living out of it and is El Gran Combo...)

Some other comments here will follow...Good luck!

Saludos!

I thank you for your speedy reply. And yes, like many here on the forum i am latino (cuban)... i mean as if living in miami didnt say enough

I do understand the clave, or i feel i understand it... i mean i can groove to it. Both sides 3-2 and 2-3. Its just when i hear salsa music on the radio, it sounds like theres more to it than the patterns being played. Like a sort of order, and thats what i dont understand about the music yet.

I can totally agree with what youre saying about the experience and pride and the 'cliques'... unfortunately these are harmful elements in music that actually hinder the music but are part of our everyday world

I guess the question im trying to have answered is.
If i were trying out for YOUR band, what qualities and characteristics would you want to see that would either help me or hurt me in choosing me for the spot.



;D

[Firebrand]

my best advice is to befriend the musicians...buy them a drink and introduce yourself. Use your common sense and personality radar to gauge the reaction of the musicians you befriend. If they look OK, ask to sit in. Give them your business card and tell them that you're new in the area and wish to know more musicians.

Do this all without pushing. I personally like to help and connect new musicians when I see them, but if I feel that the person is too much of a "lapa" (a leech), I might be hesitant to be too close.

Definitely take the time to practice on your own and develop your skills, because you usually only get 1 or 2 chances to show your stuff to new musicians and band leaders. If they label you a "softy", you'll end up being a third-call musician for a long time.

Other than that, be respectful, keep yourself clean (no drugs or other negative music culture habits), keep responsible and timely, and soon musicians will speak of you as a competent musician who is responsible and clean. Trust me, being responsible and clean (or lack thereof) have been the reason many musicians I know have lost gigs. If you get the rep of being good AND friendly/responsible/professional, your gigs will grow.

That's how I've done it.

Good luck...I've been there...

[m_three10]

These are both solid replies guys, i guess to wrap it all up - since both of your posts really talk about character and personality - what technical aspects in terms of physical playing must one have down.


Will i be needing to know all the 6/8 patters. Abaqua etc? How far will understanding the tumbao and son montuno and the others go?

Basically, in terms of patterns (of course know everything), but what is really prevalent in that style of music, salsa?


Thanks a lot guys, your replies really mean a lot. Its just that one last thing i guess thats bothering. WHAT (technically) must i know?

[JohnnyConga]

m-three ten......I know Edwin very well and he took lessons from me, I am also VERY familiar with his personality ??? ...but anyway....first thing is to know your instrument and how to play it, thoroughly. Depending on how u were taught and how much, depends on how soon u can become a conga player in a band, or a timbale or bongo player.....that could take years....to be proficient enought to "know" your clave and rhythms that go with the music, plus personality, patience, "great ears", "great time", and a bit of "fortuna" you may become a "dance musician"....if u need a NEW teacher i will turn u on to my man Freddie Lugo, who plays all 3 C B T....did you know me in Miami?....I also worked at Mars music on 125th remember?....paz...."JC" Johnny Conga....

[pcastag]

Only one salsa band who makes a living at it? Dang! What are al the other hundreds of salsa musicians doing? I know of at least a couple cats that I play with here in Houston that ain't got no day job! :p
PC

[m_three10]

m-three ten......I know Edwin very well and he took lessons from me, I am also VERY familiar with his personality ??? ...but anyway....first thing is to know your instrument and how to play it, thoroughly. Depending on how u were taught and how much, depends on how soon u can become a conga player in a band, or a timbale or bongo player.....that could take years....to be proficient enought to "know" your clave and rhythms that go with the music, plus personality, patience, "great ears", "great time", and a bit of "fortuna" you may become a "dance musician"....if u need a NEW teacher i will turn u on to my man Freddie Lugo, who plays all 3 C B T....did you know me in Miami?....I also worked at Mars music on 125th remember?....paz...."JC" Johnny Conga....

Wow... exactly how do you guys know each other?

I learned he was pro, later after we met when he played a gig at the highschool i was working at. I was blown away by his timbale skill and he was telling me about lessons and how he really wanted to teach (needed $)

I agreed (this was in january) and we took about 4 lessons i believe. I really credit the man because he did a straight no bullshit lesson and told me when i was wrong and made sure i did it right. He even lent me his conga to practice with when i didnt have a pair of my own at the time.

Not having a conga really hindered me from learning the material as fast as i could had i had an instrument to practice with. He saw the quick progress and continued teaching me more movements.

So ive been honestly drumming now for about 7 months, but having a strong leaning towards rhythm, i'd say i was able to get the material down quick, and really focus on the fundamentals.


I am interested in taking lessons again because i really want to be a sharp musician and a notable one as well. I was thinking of taking lessons with a friend Joe Collado, that name might ring a bell (apparently everyone knows everyone here ).


Unfortunately JC i didnt know you then, since mars was open around the time that i didnt even play any instrument. i think i hated music around that time.... lol

Once again, i gotta thank you all for the really honest and smart advice thats been given in this thread. If anyone else has anything they'd like to share please contribute!

[JohnnyConga]

Joe Collado(see photo below) is a very good friend of mine also and took a couple of lessons with me also many years ago as well as Edwin....I was in a few bands in Miami and Edwin and I sometimes playd together but i met him when he first came from Chicago and long time ago...he is really "very serious" about his playing which i always respected and a very good all round player...When I knew him he was a bit young and sometimes very impatient with others/musicians...i think he was 19 or 20 when i met him...is he still in Miami?....he called me not too long ago and was planning on moving out....if u see or hear from him tell him i said "Hi"....."JC" Johnny Conga........Photo-.from topR toL-Danny Diaz-Archie Pena- ME
Joe Collado "Cookie" Lopez.....

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... rigens.jpg

[m_three10]

wow...

I have footage of joe that i'll put up so you can see him, it was that gig he played with edwin.
I got the solo footage.


I'll be calling Joe soon for lessons, because he was always showing me movements and little techniques and tricks here and there. Hes one hell of a player.

Last i heard from edwin was that he was planning on moving to LA. and i had met him when he came from chicago... and i really dont care to know anything else.

Im beginning to see a link now, between the playing styles of edwin and joe having been taught by you... which in turn has come down to myself the newest member of the class if you will... But im hungry for more JC... i want to get hooked up with someone here in miami who can really exploit my learning ability and you guys are whats left of the old school so theres no time to be wasting.


I added you on myspace. My names Gabriel Mendoza. Nice to meet you.



Edited By m_three10 on 1187067219

[JohnnyConga]

Hi Gabriel....Igualmente......Yea Joe is on youtube.com now....takes a nice conga solo...like i said i can turn u on to Freddy Lugo another "ol skooler" from NYCity....he plays bongos,congas and timbales....email me at johnnyconga@hotmail.com and I'll give u his number to call...and he's connected with the "rumberos" there and they jam from time to time too...."JC" Johnny Conga....

[m_three10]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDnMhcgpIWY

heres the link. Apparently joe put it up himself when i gave it to him.

I remember he was really happy to know i filmed it

[caballoballo]

Saludos, Yes sometimes you need to know other musicians but that also leads to see some mediocres playing in bands as a friend Conguero told me once,he said some people play because they know others otherwise they would not play. I Do not think Bongo playing is the easier one,the Conga is only playing the march & the Timbal is doing the cascara,the bongo is coming in & out of the martillo with precision rhytm ,then he drop the Bongo and grab the campana to lead the montuno, I do not think is the easy one ,try reading a chart (not doing martillo) and count while doing fillings ,surprise to find yourself off beat with respect to the clave. I seen some other bongoceros which don't know the meaning of the phrase" afinque " (can translate now) and they start slaping since 2 pa 4. For three10,yes like JC said you need to know your instrument and devote yourself to practice,record the clave and use it while practicing that will help you a lot. 2/3 clave songs are easier to follow and yes go to clubs,seat and listen. Salsa dance is another exercise which would help you to stay in clave because you dance into the clave.

Very important, buy a quality instrument from start, a cheap one will not reproduce the true sound .

[Raymond]

m_three_10

Your questions are good one but there is no specific answer. Is like JC says..you have to dominate so many things and like I said, you could cheat your way but if you don't have it, unless you are given a break, it will show.

But you want to try it? No problem but is a lot of work. It can't be done. Let me give you my story because I once had your attitude and all it took was hard work lots of it, listening, talking to people, watching bands, seeing the psychology, befriending people who had gigs, etc, etc.

When I was a kid I played a little timbale but never got serious. After becoming a teenager I left the "playing". Got back to it because a friend needed a car pool partner. I had an idea how to play bongo and my friend noticed it that I needed work. He stuck with me but I got serious. I practiced for hours, I mean hours. Listened to every record, every style, watch bands. Got OK! Then I arrived to PR. I had the same goal you had.

I met a recording musician who I admire, Albert Machuca. Saw him record, talked to him, asked him what equipment he had, his tricks in records, his tricks live etc. Albert had a gig he could not do. He offerred it to me. It was a big gig. I cheated my playing but I knew I mas missing certain things about the mechanics of timing, how to play variations to salsa and did not know how to play the other two, timbales and congas.

It was hard to me because I felt the pressure of other musicians because I was not part of the click and I was not good enough. Always felt the pressure that the other guys thought I was not good. The main singer made a promise to Albert to keep me until Albert could do the gig so they did not kick me out. Eventually, Albert came back and took the gig.

My next move was to realize that I needed to do more and learn. So I went into this stretch of buying myself a set of congas and timbales and playing in anything, rumbas, record playing in public, gigs for free with "awful sounding" groups or "ventetus". (It was sort of expected that if I played bongos and I needed to play congas and know the rhythms or patterns. It was embarrasing that I could not do them when the placed the conga in front of me). You did not know the "humiliation" or the hard times I went through because I was not that good but I dare to try.

During this time, I had gigs with Puerto Rico "Jibaro" groups and I had the chance to get into a salsa band of a fellow "air national guard" band that I did for various years.

Another move I did was to continue to meet musicians. Top ones and asked them what they did, etc,. In my time of friendship with Machuca I went to hundreds of recordings and gigs to see people playing. Then I realized I need to learn how to read music and expand my horizons. Met Tito de Gracia who taught me how to read. Sorry to say but I've never been a good sight reader but with Tito I got down to my techniques of playing and he taught me the tricks of the arrangements and hundreds of things.

To end this story...I continue to play ocassionally. All this took me almost 20 years. (I am sick of playing TV, I tend to get sick when I get a lot of gigs. I do not do this full time....I started this while in the Air Force, then while in College, then after I had a full time job as a Tax Consultant and know with my own Tax Consulting business).

I met all my heroes, from Marc Quinones, Tito de Gracia, Giovanni Hidalgo, etc, . I became friend with the people of Pearl, I became endorsed by them and I helped them here in Puerto Rico. Still with all this I do not think I am the greatest player but I try.

Is like someoby said to me once...This business is 75% relationship and 25% talent.

Sorry about the long story but just to give you an idea. You have to go at it. Meet people, listen, listen, seeing, listening, asking, etc, etc.

Saludos!

[blango]

"
* My question to you all, is what does it take for one to play in a live club gig?
* How do I go about joining a salsa group, perhaps one that plays in a club, weddings, or hotels?
* What would be the fundamental movements to have understood before even bothering to tryout for such a group?
* I understand it takes experience, but is there perhaps a fake book or something of that sort where I can find the common salsa pieces being played and have a fond understanding of it?
* Do these gigs pay well?
* What hardware would be necessary besides my congas? (im thinking microphones…) "
Ok, you got a good start.

To focus on technique is a good first step.

What does it take? ... technique, groove, stamina, a good ear and patience, in short. Took me 15 years, but i bet you could do it in 5 if you really want it.

Being a musician will really help you.

I would always concentrate on groove, groove, groove. - or never breaking a very solid meter.

Dont underestimate the value of meter. Play with cds from top players and lock in your time. Record and listen to yourself.

As far as equipment, just get a solid set of three, oak, say Matadors or LP classics. You wont need anything else for a while.

There is a Latin fake book, and something called a Latin un fake book, or something like that. Im not sure it would help you much. Being familiar with the classics is key - Omara, Celia, Tito, Palmieri, Barrato, the cats from the Fania All-stars etc.

I would get as much on stage experience as possible. open mic's etc. Find where the conga players hang, meet and hang with the best players. Always take your sources seriously, and try to get the best information.

No, these are not well paying gigs. Think 10 to 20 people to pay, thats in the 1000's - usually ends up being 100-150 a player. The money is in the high end stuff - the more difficult Trio, or combo work - $250 and up.

Hope that helps

Tony