Willowbrook Mall Jam

[pcastag]

Hey Jongo, if you're staying for the weekend you can come check us out at planeta bar-rio www.bar-rio.com we've got a great percussionist (I play kit) named Andres Bermudez, he's played with a lot of different cats. Mostly latin pop, with the occasional cumbia or salsa tune, nice place though and very active on saturday nights.
PC

[Jongo]

I wish I could stay for the weekend but I will be there on business and so I have to drive back to SA on Saturday. I have been to Planeta and it is a nice place, very happening and active and lots of beautiful Latinas! Maybe next time I am in H-town.
Hey Dr. Z, thanks for the explanation on the Guaguanco, so it was a style from Los Sitios that you were playing with your students. Very cool. Can you tell us more about the Los Sitios Guaguanco? I am very interested.

[mco]

Wow DrZ, when I first saw the post, I thought you jetted all the way to the east coast.
We have a Willowbrook Mall here in Northeast NJ, just up the road from Fountains of Wayne (of Soprano's fame, as well as the band's namesake).
There's a jam every Saturday and Sunday, but unfortunately it is of the traffic variety due to the never- ending construction on Route 46.

[zaragenca]

To brother Jongo,yes I already promised to prepare an article in relation to Guaguanco...To brother MCO,I'm sorry,..later I did realize that the owner of the Malls is a corporation which have 'Malls' all over the country.Dr. Zaragemca

[jorge]

Hi Dr. Z,
You have mentioned a few times the differences in guaguanco styles within the guaguanco from La Habana. How is the style from Los Sitios different from other styles played in La Habana?

Are there any recordings you could suggest that are available commercially or that you could post, where we could hear a guaguanco from Los Sitios that illustrates the typical style?

Gracias.

[TONE74]

Good question, even if Dr.Z dosn't have an answer or sample maybe someone else can give one. Thanks

[zaragenca]

The difference is in the approach of the 'Salidor' and also in the approach of the 'Quinto',,some rumberos where part of the real deal in the 'Barrios'.... and other just grow up listening the recording ,(which standartize the playing becouse they were listening only that approach).Dr. Zaragemca

[ralph]

Z,
You not really explaining anything...what is the salidor (i assume tres golpes) doing differently, is it playing on the one, is it playing against the clave? Is it answering the tumbador much like what Rumberos de Cuba do? What about the quinto? What is the quinto doing differently....would you consider Rumberos De Cuba "real deal", more info please....

[tamboricua]

Z,
You not really explaining anything...what is the salidor (i assume tres golpes) doing differently, is it playing on the one, is it playing against the clave? Is it answering the tumbador much like what Rumberos de Cuba do? What about the quinto? What is the quinto doing differently....would you consider Rumberos De Cuba "real deal", more info please....

Ralph,

The Salidor in traditional Rumba Guaguancó is the tumbador.

It's the one that "calls" the groove in.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio

[ralph]

thanks Jorge....now that I stand corrected...what role does the tumba play differently...thats not guarapachanguero, Z?

[jorge]

It is kind of hard to describe differences in guaguanco styles verbally or in standard western music notation. You could spend a half hour trying to figure out the patterns, assuming they were written correctly, and still not get the difference in feeling, accents, floreos, etc.

Dr. Z, or anyone else, do you know of any recordings of guaguanco from Los Sitios that we could listen to, to compare with the other styles we have heard? Now you have me interested in finding out what is different about your style of guaguanco from los Sitios. Can you give us names of any drummers from Los Sitios who have recorded on any of the recent rumba recordings and who play that style? Usually the liner notes on rumba recordings don't identify where exactly the musicians are from or what exact style they are playing on each song, but they usually do name the musicians.

[zaragenca]

Few Guaguancos groups did record in the 1950's... Clave y Guaguanco and El Grupo Folklorico Cubano of Alfredo Zayas were already in the music connection which facilitate the introduction of them to recording by Odilio Urfe,(which was the one taking that folklor to the media. but there were not money on that at that time.Dr. Zaragemca

[ralph]

Z, by your response I surmise that the proof is in those recordings of the 1950's that shows the tumba, quinto variations, which are not being played today but are kept intact in los sitios? Is that what you are trying to tell us? Plus they didn't make any money? maybe i missed something...oye Jorge...you play in NYC, what style of rumba is favored in your opinion matanzas or havana style or ?

[jorge]

Dr. Z, are you saying that el grupo de Alberto Zayas played a style of guaguanco played in Los Sitios? Was Giraldo Rodriguez (who played quinto, according to the liner notes) from Los Sitios? That recording has some of the best quinto I have ever heard, on the yambus as well as the guaguancos, and the songs Roberto Maza sings are especially great.

Ralph, in NYC, some of the less skilled rumberos callejeros used to get up and leave if we tried to play Matanzas style guaguanco. Now they just yell at us to play faster. The good drummers know and like both styles. Last Sunday at the Castle Hill rumba, we started a guaguanco Habana style and Guarachon and the other singer started a Muñequitos song. When I switched the second part to Matanzas style golpe (what they call seis por ocho), everyone followed and played guaguanco Matancero. Probably because the other drummers were really good (Gene Golden on tumbador and Nick Laboy on quinto) and knew the Matanzas style. Even so, in the park, a lot of people seem to like some of the new guarapachangueo styles more than classical Matanzas or Habana guaguanco. Some days, just playing a straight tumbador or tres dos in Central Park can get you kicked off the drum. Above all, in the park rumbas people insist on playing guaguanco way too fast; try and start a slow columbia and you are history...

[ralph]

Jorge...it's probably just the pace of the city...tends to speed up the music...that happens...Niko on quinto and Gene on tumba...its nice to hear that the young lions and the legends are playing together...so the rumba at Sports Plus is alive and well? Do the same people usually play or is it usually different timberos?

When you say you switched to a Seis Por Ocho...you mean you played the tres golpes a la the munequitos, with the one tone as opposed to the two tone havana guaguanco...I always though that seis por ocho meant the tumbador...



Edited By ralph on 1193977601