Tabla, Arabic Tabla... - ...(or darbuka as they like to call it...)

Use this forum to discuss about all the other percussions and/or to suggest a new specified forum to add

Postby timo » Tue Dec 11, 2001 6:45 pm

are there any members who are interested in near-east and far-east pesrcussions?
User avatar
timo
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:38 pm
Location: London, UK

Postby JohnnyConga » Thu Dec 13, 2001 5:49 am

i LOVE THE tABLA DRUMS. It is mathematically the most advanced drum on earth. Giovanni has incorporated a "Tabla" style on the conga drum. That is the "New Wave" of conga drumming. Middle eastern rhythms are mostly odd time configurations.7/8 9/8 12//8,7/4,5/4 and so on. I think the Darbuka is another sophisticated hand drum, and has it's own mathematical approach. ....JC JOHNNY CONGA....
User avatar
JohnnyConga
 
Posts: 3825
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:58 pm
Location: Ft. Lauderdale,Fl/Miami

Postby timo » Thu Dec 13, 2001 4:28 pm

its the most advanced drum in any way, as are most indian istruments, tunable to the slightes change it note. i think Giovanni uses a weird interpretation of the Tablashufle (DireDire), and he does it like an manoteo movement on conga while on the tabla its back and forth on the edges of the hand.
the thing with the times is that in Tabla there are no time signatures ! it works in cyclic form, there is a certain amount beats repeated in a cycle, for example the Dhamaar Theka is one of the hardest to play: it is

X 2 0 3
Ka dhe te dhe te / Dha - / ga te te / te te ta -

(X= sam the first stroke ond the most imprtant for it keeps the beat, so other players know where in the cycle you are playing, 2,3 are the talis and 0 is the khali)

and has a cycle of 14 beats divided into four sections each section has different amount of beats
5/ 2/ 3/ 4/ so if thinking in western standards the time signature changes every bar... which would get pretty confusing after a while. but since the bols (cylcle of beats) are learned by heart phonetically it becomes easier,( but you have to stop thinking in time signatures and bars), then when you know it well enough you can start improvising (but still keeping the basic amount of beats the same). though it is extremely hard to explain all the wonderfull traits of the Tabla, i tried ( and i suggest you go to a teacher if you really want to learn).

the Arabic Tabla (or darbuka) has some of the same traits, it also uses phonetical syllables for each hit, and also (sometimes) doesnt use time signatures (at least if you go to the original plyers. (of whom most cant even read music), but it has been incorperated into "western music" with all the traits.
but this is a different world and is very hard to explain, and would take far too long.
User avatar
timo
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:38 pm
Location: London, UK

Postby JohnnyConga » Sat Dec 15, 2001 12:45 am

So in other words Tabla drumming may well be the most sophisticated mathematical drumming that exists.?.....As you know there are over 650 ragas,with each in itself a separate and improvazational pattern to the movement......please correct me if I'm wrong I am a novice of Indian music even after 30 years of listening....JC JOHNNY CONGA....
User avatar
JohnnyConga
 
Posts: 3825
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:58 pm
Location: Ft. Lauderdale,Fl/Miami

Postby timo » Sat Dec 15, 2001 5:45 pm

that and the Mridangam, Ghatam, Pakhawaj, mridang, which base pretty much on the same princibles, ragas arent that familiar to me either,(since they belong more to the other insruments, like the Sitar), but its something like that, i'v only studied Tabla for about a year, so i'm no expert on indian music. the tabla has 11 main Thekas
(i think) plus many different "schools" (gharanas), like Lucknow, Dilli(Delhi), Benares, etc.. which all have different styles of playng the thekas, both in style and exicution of the bols, but there are many more Thekas which are rarely used, these are only main thekas from these you get many variations, and then you have Gat's
which are fixed compostions, which are made up, by certain rules not too many people know any more. and then of course theres improvisation(this does not happen in Gat's). so its pretty complex, and i had real trouble (being a percussionist) to play indian music, cause i had to get used to the fact that there are no measures, or anything like that in wester music, where you can count the same way.
User avatar
timo
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:38 pm
Location: London, UK

Postby JohnnyConga » Sun Dec 16, 2001 3:48 pm

I think the hardest thing about Tabla is sitting on the floor cross legged....smile....Timo post the picture here in the foto section,or to me at johnnyconga@hotmail.com....Da triki tin tal........JC JOHNNY CONGA...
User avatar
JohnnyConga
 
Posts: 3825
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2001 7:58 pm
Location: Ft. Lauderdale,Fl/Miami

Postby timo » Sun Dec 16, 2001 4:26 pm

Yeah, thats definately the hardest part. :)
They have a photo section here!?
(i haven't seen one)

(Edited by timo at 6:40 pm on Dec. 16, 2001)
User avatar
timo
 
Posts: 162
Joined: Sun Oct 28, 2001 2:38 pm
Location: London, UK

Postby yoni » Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:08 pm

I also often sit cross-legged while playing darbuka. Some tabla players I know got problems with their knees from sitting that way too long, so far I haven't been affected, but after a long time sitting that way I feel like I got to "untie" myself to get up.

I love darbuka and dahola (bass darbuka) now, though, and these have become my main instruments over the past 15 years. They don't have the pure tones like conga, just a different sound. Playing "sideways" was real strange at first after years of conga, djembe and so on, but now feels natural & easier on the hands - the heads aren't as hard as congas & the strokes are back & forth instead of up and down; the rebound doesn't go against gravity.

I can do many traditional and complex Mid Eastern rhythms, but also enjoy playing "free", unbound to tradition, and will often apply darbuka to music where it's not usually heard.

I play with Indian tablas a bit, but the traditional ragas and all their incredible mathematics are just too daunting for me too dedicate a whole lot of time to.

The options on all instruments are infinite anyway... I like to explore and learn mainly by listening and playing. Math was always my worst subject in school.
:laugh:

All the best,
Yonatan Bar Rashi
yoni
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:52 pm
Location: Israel

Postby gilbert » Sat Apr 23, 2005 6:30 pm

well my main instrument is darbuka i've been playing since i was 10 years old and i'm now 22
but when i started conga my hands got tougher on the darbuka
User avatar
gilbert
 
Posts: 172
Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 6:18 pm
Location: lebanon

Postby yoni » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:00 pm

Hi Gilbert!

Do you find your fingers get a bit stiff after playing congas? If I play a show with both congas and darbuka, I like to play darbuka first, because after playing congas my fingers sometimes get a little too stiff to do what I like on darbuka. Conga DOES toughen the hands up though, that's for sure!
yoni
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:52 pm
Location: Israel

Postby yoni » Sat Apr 23, 2005 9:10 pm

Oh - Gilbert, one more question for you -

What is the best kind of darbuka you would recommend? I have Alexandria, but I hear there are companies that make them better.

Thanks,
Yonatan Bar Rashi
yoni
 
Posts: 538
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 12:52 pm
Location: Israel

Postby Tablaji71 » Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:01 pm

timo wrote:that and the Mridangam, Ghatam, Pakhawaj, mridang, which base pretty much on the same princibles, ragas arent that familiar to me either,(since they belong more to the other insruments, like the Sitar), but its something like that, i'v only studied Tabla for about a year, so i'm no expert on indian music. the tabla has 11 main Thekas
(i think) plus many different "schools" (gharanas), like Lucknow, Dilli(Delhi), Benares, etc.. which all have different styles of playng the thekas, both in style and exicution of the bols, but there are many more Thekas which are rarely used, these are only main thekas from these you get many variations, and then you have Gat's
which are fixed compostions, which are made up, by certain rules not too many people know any more. and then of course theres improvisation(this does not happen in Gat's). so its pretty complex, and i had real trouble (being a percussionist) to play indian music, cause i had to get used to the fact that there are no measures, or anything like that in wester music, where you can count the same way.

hi timo, i play tabla about 8 years with a great master , so today there arent difference from one gharana to an other, only old tabla player play in "own gharana". i come from a family tradition of Maharaj in benares, but my master teach me different technics.
in the indian rythm system there are about 360 rythm cycle but when you are able to play and inprove in tintal (16 beat) you can play in every time. (belive me) but you must study many and different technics and "patterns" and how you can keep in cycle.
the south indian rythms is totally differents, but together you can apply to western music or instruments like drum set.

blessings
:)
fabrizio
User avatar
Tablaji71
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:12 am
Location: ITALY

Postby zaragemca » Mon Apr 25, 2005 4:03 pm

The whole situation with Tabla is to understand that it is rooted in the configuration of the verses which are used in the Hindu and Budhist religion,becouse Tabla is used to follow that conversational patterns which would depend in how large is the sentence,and those indian-player are following that pattern when playing by themselves.But when somebody is playing for musical purpose it could be performed in the 4/4,5/4,3/4 time signature, and others percussion instruments be added.(since it is not played for religious purpose).I know that many people don't realize it but ,the ( Iya), Bata-drum of the Yorubas have the same characteristics when it is played for religious purpose, where the timing of the musical phrase have differents variation,(it is not noticeable becouse the others drums are keeping a same pattern),which the Tabla player doesn't have.But when somebody is using the Bata for popular music they don't do that,so the same thing could be done with the Tabla...And as I said before I had performed in Budhists Temple with Tabla,Darbukas and Djembe... Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1114446389
International Club of Percussionists
zaragemca
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:18 pm
Location: Houston,Texas

Postby ABAKUA » Tue Apr 26, 2005 2:55 am

Image

:D
User avatar
ABAKUA
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: Earth

Postby Tablaji71 » Wed Apr 27, 2005 7:38 am

???



Edited By Tablaji71 on 1114587644
fabrizio
User avatar
Tablaji71
 
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 10:12 am
Location: ITALY

Next

Return to Other instruments

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


cron