best cowbells
by Raymond » Mon Jan 26, 2004 3:04 pm
Franc,
What bells? Depend on the "tones" or sound you are looking for. Bongo bells? The most current "fashionable" bell is the low pitch that has been used a lot in recordings lately. You have the kind of "overtones" and the one with dry tones just like the "classic sound" from the 70s. These bells tend to be flat and big. The problems with the low pitch bells for bongos is their lack of volume when you are playing live. Unless you have a microphone you could barely be heard in most cases. (These bells are the ones used in Victor Mannuelle's, Tito Rojas and Gilberto Santarosa's latest recordings. This bell sound was populariized by the bongoseros used by Sergio George recordings late 80s mainly Ray Colon, who from what I've heard used JCR cowbells. As a matter of fact, LP developed a Sergio Hand Held Bongo Bell, in honor of Sergio George, that is the sound I am talking. However, JCR has developed other bells with the same basic sound but variations in the tones)
You have the regular looking ones that could vary in high pitch, middle pitch and low pitch. These are smaller bells and provide better projection in live playing. The very high pitches got popularized by the Colombians and Venezuelans who used them in their recordings in the 70s, i.e, Oscar D'Leon. The 80s with romantic salsa they became popular and were preferred in recordings, Frankie Ruiz, etc, etc. (That changed with the New York sound by Sergio George). In a "fat sound" band they sound OK too! (Check Willie Rosario, late 70s and 80s). The high pitches vary in their tones. Also,there is a dry tone that I prefer to play in "tumbao" situation. (Tumbao is no timbales. The Johnny Pacheco sound). Lately, these types of high pitch bells are making a comeback for recordings.
What to get? Get a low pitch, to be modern, get a dry pitch, either on the flat or regular bell, and get a high pitch you feel comfortable with. Play them and try them... (Personally, and it has become a norm here in Puerto Rico by some bongoseros, I carry at least three bells in different tones and I used them depending how do I feel the song should sound, or how it was originally recorded).
Timbale bell. There you have different pitches too. The most popular ones lately are the "half moons". They are not your regular looking bells because you could only play them in one side and not both sides. (The bottom side is flat). Their sound requires some break in and tend to be dry at the beginning. Here depends what you looking for. What I am using lately, a half moon that I am breakin in and one with mid pitch that I love because it has the right amount of overtones. They have some "open mouth" ones that are pretty good but that high pitch sound is not that popular and requires some "muffling."
I hope this helps. If you need more help, let me know...
What bells? Depend on the "tones" or sound you are looking for. Bongo bells? The most current "fashionable" bell is the low pitch that has been used a lot in recordings lately. You have the kind of "overtones" and the one with dry tones just like the "classic sound" from the 70s. These bells tend to be flat and big. The problems with the low pitch bells for bongos is their lack of volume when you are playing live. Unless you have a microphone you could barely be heard in most cases. (These bells are the ones used in Victor Mannuelle's, Tito Rojas and Gilberto Santarosa's latest recordings. This bell sound was populariized by the bongoseros used by Sergio George recordings late 80s mainly Ray Colon, who from what I've heard used JCR cowbells. As a matter of fact, LP developed a Sergio Hand Held Bongo Bell, in honor of Sergio George, that is the sound I am talking. However, JCR has developed other bells with the same basic sound but variations in the tones)
You have the regular looking ones that could vary in high pitch, middle pitch and low pitch. These are smaller bells and provide better projection in live playing. The very high pitches got popularized by the Colombians and Venezuelans who used them in their recordings in the 70s, i.e, Oscar D'Leon. The 80s with romantic salsa they became popular and were preferred in recordings, Frankie Ruiz, etc, etc. (That changed with the New York sound by Sergio George). In a "fat sound" band they sound OK too! (Check Willie Rosario, late 70s and 80s). The high pitches vary in their tones. Also,there is a dry tone that I prefer to play in "tumbao" situation. (Tumbao is no timbales. The Johnny Pacheco sound). Lately, these types of high pitch bells are making a comeback for recordings.
What to get? Get a low pitch, to be modern, get a dry pitch, either on the flat or regular bell, and get a high pitch you feel comfortable with. Play them and try them... (Personally, and it has become a norm here in Puerto Rico by some bongoseros, I carry at least three bells in different tones and I used them depending how do I feel the song should sound, or how it was originally recorded).
Timbale bell. There you have different pitches too. The most popular ones lately are the "half moons". They are not your regular looking bells because you could only play them in one side and not both sides. (The bottom side is flat). Their sound requires some break in and tend to be dry at the beginning. Here depends what you looking for. What I am using lately, a half moon that I am breakin in and one with mid pitch that I love because it has the right amount of overtones. They have some "open mouth" ones that are pretty good but that high pitch sound is not that popular and requires some "muffling."
I hope this helps. If you need more help, let me know...
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by franc » Mon Jan 26, 2004 11:41 pm
raymond, thanks alot again . your great and knows a lot about percuccion. i'm just at intermiadate level, but love it. a friend of came form chicago and brought me a jcr bongo bell. it's kind of small. i like the sound it produces. the demensions are as fallow the mouth of the bell is 2and 1/2'' its opening from top to bottom. it is 5and 1/2'' wide and 7'' long. it is a small bell and i like the sound. what is your thoughts on this kind of bell. thank , mi pana. te las sabes todas!!! , franc
ibúkún,ire,
Franc ♪♪
Franc ♪♪
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franc - Posts: 359
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by Raymond » Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:31 pm
Franc,
Not an expert or aware of sizes but if it is the small one, a little big bigger than a cha-cha bell, which I've seen sold here in PR and in some Sam Ash stores in the US, that will not do the job. (Normally less than 8 inches, is small).
With all due respect, those small bells are for amateur parranderos and/or special effects. Check the size well....Appears, you might have a professional size.
With the bells, I have to say thanks to Alberto Machuca, the famous recording bongosero, who introduce me to the JCR Bells when I came from the states and took upon this seriously.
I am no different that some people out there who buy the bells in bunches. (I have a lot of them because I personally went to JCR's workshop in the Bronx, like most musicians do, and got them at a good price).
Recommendation when you go and buy the bells, get yourself a cowbell beater to try them. Not all bells sound alike....
Saludos!
Not an expert or aware of sizes but if it is the small one, a little big bigger than a cha-cha bell, which I've seen sold here in PR and in some Sam Ash stores in the US, that will not do the job. (Normally less than 8 inches, is small).
With all due respect, those small bells are for amateur parranderos and/or special effects. Check the size well....Appears, you might have a professional size.
With the bells, I have to say thanks to Alberto Machuca, the famous recording bongosero, who introduce me to the JCR Bells when I came from the states and took upon this seriously.
I am no different that some people out there who buy the bells in bunches. (I have a lot of them because I personally went to JCR's workshop in the Bronx, like most musicians do, and got them at a good price).
Recommendation when you go and buy the bells, get yourself a cowbell beater to try them. Not all bells sound alike....
Saludos!
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by franc » Wed Jan 28, 2004 3:42 am
raymond, the jcr bongo that we talked about is mucho larger than a cha cha bell. this bell is no that small. i think you are right, it could be aprofesional bell. it fits well in my hand and have sufficient space to hit with the beater. any way i want to buy another JCR bongo and timbal bells. i'm going to PURE SOUND as you suggest. thanks again my friend.my best, franc
ibúkún,ire,
Franc ♪♪
Franc ♪♪
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franc - Posts: 359
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2003 12:18 pm
- Location: P.R
by Raymond » Thu Jan 29, 2004 2:55 pm
Pearl cowbells? Well, although I am starting to sponsoring Pearl Products, I cannot say much about their Elite and Bala Cowbells. Elite are more generic and supposedly Bala are for the latin music player. Pearl cowbells visually look very nice.
I've tried a Bala hand held, with their own beater, and is OK! It was the big one that has a low tone. Also, I tried a cha-cha bell that was OK too! Have not tried anything else....
Pearl is currently revamping and/or working in some of their products so they could compete with the forces in percussion instruments market. With the endorsements with people like Marc Quinones, Bobby Allende and others, I know they will get feeback and ideas on good products they could offer.
They are getting serious...let's see what happens...
Saludos
I've tried a Bala hand held, with their own beater, and is OK! It was the big one that has a low tone. Also, I tried a cha-cha bell that was OK too! Have not tried anything else....
Pearl is currently revamping and/or working in some of their products so they could compete with the forces in percussion instruments market. With the endorsements with people like Marc Quinones, Bobby Allende and others, I know they will get feeback and ideas on good products they could offer.
They are getting serious...let's see what happens...
Saludos
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by blazo » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:11 pm
hello everybody!!
My frend will bought for me JCR bell,cause Im from Europe and
he will go to NY.
So I need a good mambo bell on witch I can all so play the
bongo bell patern and all others paterns.I think the bell should
have good lo sound ,cause there is no bongosero in the band..
Im thinking about half moon bell...can mention some please..
thanks
My frend will bought for me JCR bell,cause Im from Europe and
he will go to NY.
So I need a good mambo bell on witch I can all so play the
bongo bell patern and all others paterns.I think the bell should
have good lo sound ,cause there is no bongosero in the band..
Im thinking about half moon bell...can mention some please..
thanks
- blazo
by Raymond » Fri Feb 27, 2004 3:45 pm
Blazo,
In my experience, JCR does not offer "mounted" (or timbale) cowbells that are good to play in the mouth of the bell to provdide the beats or to act as a bongosero bell. Their cowbells are more to use the timbalero to do the "mambo" patterns. The mouths of JCR timbale bells are fragile and normally are not good at all to be used as bongosero bells. (JCR might have some models but never seem them).
I have various versions of the JCR half moon and definitively they are not good for use as a "bongosero bell."
The best ones??? LP Timbale Bell (LP 205), the black one. Note it has a dry low tone when played as a bongosero bells. For variety of tones, some of LP Salsa series bells that are actually the series' bongo bells but mounted to put in a timbale/drum set up are good also. (The bongo versions without the mounting device are the ES-3, low pitch, ES-8, high pitch, ES-9 medium low Sergio Bell. You have to check the versions with the mounting device that have different numbering).
Pearl Bala series and Meinl Realplayers are good also but LP offers the best cowbells for that. Most top timbaleros I know that play ocassionally without bongoseros in small venues use or have used LP 205. (Tito de Gracia, Ralph Irrizary and Marc Quinones to give you some examples...).
Myself I have an LP 205 and a Meinl Realplayer timbale bell whenever I am in a set up without a bongosero. (Normally, the timbalero will use the two bells in the set up, one timbale mambo bell to play the "mambo" pattern with his/her strong hand and one "bongo sounding" to play with the weak hand)
I hope this helps...
Saludos!
In my experience, JCR does not offer "mounted" (or timbale) cowbells that are good to play in the mouth of the bell to provdide the beats or to act as a bongosero bell. Their cowbells are more to use the timbalero to do the "mambo" patterns. The mouths of JCR timbale bells are fragile and normally are not good at all to be used as bongosero bells. (JCR might have some models but never seem them).
I have various versions of the JCR half moon and definitively they are not good for use as a "bongosero bell."
The best ones??? LP Timbale Bell (LP 205), the black one. Note it has a dry low tone when played as a bongosero bells. For variety of tones, some of LP Salsa series bells that are actually the series' bongo bells but mounted to put in a timbale/drum set up are good also. (The bongo versions without the mounting device are the ES-3, low pitch, ES-8, high pitch, ES-9 medium low Sergio Bell. You have to check the versions with the mounting device that have different numbering).
Pearl Bala series and Meinl Realplayers are good also but LP offers the best cowbells for that. Most top timbaleros I know that play ocassionally without bongoseros in small venues use or have used LP 205. (Tito de Gracia, Ralph Irrizary and Marc Quinones to give you some examples...).
Myself I have an LP 205 and a Meinl Realplayer timbale bell whenever I am in a set up without a bongosero. (Normally, the timbalero will use the two bells in the set up, one timbale mambo bell to play the "mambo" pattern with his/her strong hand and one "bongo sounding" to play with the weak hand)
I hope this helps...
Saludos!
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by Raymond » Mon Mar 01, 2004 5:13 pm
Blazo,
After I left my last post, I remembered that if you go personally to JCR's workshop in the Bronx and talk to Cali, the owner, he might be able to "arrange" some bongo bells with mounting devices. That I know he does. It might cost you a little more but you might try it.
The combinantion of LP 205 and JCR half moons? No problem. There is no set pattern or standard about the tones of the bongo bell and the timbale bells should have when they are "played together." Let me tell you, the half moon bells look elegant but they tend to schock some people with their sound if you are use to the regular JCR or LPs. They are dry and require some extensive break in period sometimes. Also, they are fragile on the top, playing surface.
Like I mentioned somewhere here in this forum, JCR bells are custom made and are unpredictable how are they going to sound. Based on the style, they might have a "standard" tone but all tend to differ a bit in their actual sound. (Specially, at the beginning when they are not broken in). Since these bells are not mass produced and are hand made, there is no way sometimes to tell how are they going to sound unless you try them. (Watch out some come with deffects...).
Saludos!
Edited By Raymond on 1078161295
After I left my last post, I remembered that if you go personally to JCR's workshop in the Bronx and talk to Cali, the owner, he might be able to "arrange" some bongo bells with mounting devices. That I know he does. It might cost you a little more but you might try it.
The combinantion of LP 205 and JCR half moons? No problem. There is no set pattern or standard about the tones of the bongo bell and the timbale bells should have when they are "played together." Let me tell you, the half moon bells look elegant but they tend to schock some people with their sound if you are use to the regular JCR or LPs. They are dry and require some extensive break in period sometimes. Also, they are fragile on the top, playing surface.
Like I mentioned somewhere here in this forum, JCR bells are custom made and are unpredictable how are they going to sound. Based on the style, they might have a "standard" tone but all tend to differ a bit in their actual sound. (Specially, at the beginning when they are not broken in). Since these bells are not mass produced and are hand made, there is no way sometimes to tell how are they going to sound unless you try them. (Watch out some come with deffects...).
Saludos!
Edited By Raymond on 1078161295
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by mco » Sun Mar 07, 2004 4:16 am
Raymond-I was perusing the Timbale Board and caught your recommendation of the LP205 for use as a mounted bongo bell in a timbale set-up.. Well, I bought one today and you were spot-on. The 205 makes a great sounding bongo bell when hit directly on the mouth, with its dry, low sound.
Could you tell me exactly which Meinl timbale bell you are using
(eg, hammered or non-hammered, 6" or 8", wide mouth or normal mouth)? I paired the LP205 with a Meinl 6" hand -hammered RealPlayer bell I already had and I thought they sounded pretty darn good together. The Meinl RealPlayer bells I have heard so far all sound quite good to me, with a wetter, livelier sound than most of LP's offerings.
Could you tell me exactly which Meinl timbale bell you are using
(eg, hammered or non-hammered, 6" or 8", wide mouth or normal mouth)? I paired the LP205 with a Meinl 6" hand -hammered RealPlayer bell I already had and I thought they sounded pretty darn good together. The Meinl RealPlayer bells I have heard so far all sound quite good to me, with a wetter, livelier sound than most of LP's offerings.
- mco
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- Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2003 1:06 am
- Location: NJ
by Raymond » Mon Mar 08, 2004 2:38 pm
MCO,
The Meinl bell I am talking about is the one that comes "standard" with the purchase of Luis Conte Timbale which is a Realplayer Steel bell, non hammered. I think is the STB80S (with the big mouth. I will check when I go home). This bell gives a higher pitch than the LP 205. The volume does not compare, LP 205 projects more.
Be aware I use this bells only for use as a bongo bell when there is no bongosero. For timbale "mambo bells" I use various JCR models and recommend LP Salsa Timbale Bell Uptown as an alternative.
I am glad my recommendation worked!
Saludos!
The Meinl bell I am talking about is the one that comes "standard" with the purchase of Luis Conte Timbale which is a Realplayer Steel bell, non hammered. I think is the STB80S (with the big mouth. I will check when I go home). This bell gives a higher pitch than the LP 205. The volume does not compare, LP 205 projects more.
Be aware I use this bells only for use as a bongo bell when there is no bongosero. For timbale "mambo bells" I use various JCR models and recommend LP Salsa Timbale Bell Uptown as an alternative.
I am glad my recommendation worked!
Saludos!
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by Raymond » Thu Mar 11, 2004 9:10 pm
Just find out JCR has a website and you could buy cowbells there. The site is http://www.jcrpercussion.com. (Look at the photos on the site. You are seeing the good side of the workshop that is not even the front side).
Few products, bongo hand held cowbells, set of timbales, bongo cowbell beaters, maracas and congas. No bongos, no ago ago bells, no timbale bells that I know he also makes.
However, I found everything more expensive than they should and that is without the shipping costs. (Bells appear to be close $10 to $15 more than street price in PR). Another drawback is that buying bells, like mentioned in my other posts, could be an adventure. Cali has been labeling his bells based on the pitch he believes they are. (During the last few years, the bells have a removable white circled label with the pitch written). However, be aware that I have found bells labeled medium pitch that are actually high or vice versa. Also, the sizes and the "dryness' or brightness" of some pitches could differ within the same bells or different bells. (Hopefully, I am not confusing anybody but those who know, know what I mean). So, if you order you might not get the bell you want. (Please refer to the made by hand feature of JCR bells in my other posts).
For those who want to try it anyway...go for it....
Apparently, finally, Cali gave up on not having a web site. Mentioned it to him once and he said he will not do that because he did not have the capacity to produce bells for everybody. He might be working overtime....
Saludos!
Few products, bongo hand held cowbells, set of timbales, bongo cowbell beaters, maracas and congas. No bongos, no ago ago bells, no timbale bells that I know he also makes.
However, I found everything more expensive than they should and that is without the shipping costs. (Bells appear to be close $10 to $15 more than street price in PR). Another drawback is that buying bells, like mentioned in my other posts, could be an adventure. Cali has been labeling his bells based on the pitch he believes they are. (During the last few years, the bells have a removable white circled label with the pitch written). However, be aware that I have found bells labeled medium pitch that are actually high or vice versa. Also, the sizes and the "dryness' or brightness" of some pitches could differ within the same bells or different bells. (Hopefully, I am not confusing anybody but those who know, know what I mean). So, if you order you might not get the bell you want. (Please refer to the made by hand feature of JCR bells in my other posts).
For those who want to try it anyway...go for it....
Apparently, finally, Cali gave up on not having a web site. Mentioned it to him once and he said he will not do that because he did not have the capacity to produce bells for everybody. He might be working overtime....
Saludos!
- Raymond
- Posts: 747
- Joined: Mon Mar 10, 2003 1:16 am
- Location: Puerto Rico
by tamboricua » Wed Mar 24, 2004 9:35 pm
Hi Congaforum,
Hope all is well! Another source for those who want to order JCR Percussion Cowbells online.
http://www.ricardomarrero.net/calybells.html
Saludos,
Jorge Ginorio
Hope all is well! Another source for those who want to order JCR Percussion Cowbells online.
http://www.ricardomarrero.net/calybells.html
Saludos,
Jorge Ginorio
-
tamboricua - Posts: 981
- Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2001 2:45 pm
- Location: USA
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