Need new heads - ..which ones?

[yalla]

Hey guys, the time has come to change my timbales heads, and I would like to have advices from ALL of you :p about which heads to choose. I own 14"+15" brass Toca timbales, and I like rich, warm tones... do you think Fiberskins would be good? I am also prone to consider using different head types/thickness for macho and hembra...
Any suggestion?
Thank you!!!

[JohnnyConga]

Being that I'm "OL Skool" from the 1st skool, I would always recommend "weather king" heads for timbales. I don't like artificial heads, sorry....never did. I've had the same weather king heads on my timbs for 25 years and they still hold up, and sound great. But then again I have them on an old set of solid brass Slingerlands from the 60's. But they sound GREAT!....JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[JohnnyConga]

#### 14 and 15 inch heads???? what happened to just 12 and 13 size heads.?...that is what mine are. I know today everything is suppossed to be bigger and better, not necessarily true , though. 12 and 13 were "typico" size, now there 14 and 15,too low in sound,unless your in a Big band. My timbale player has a set of "timbalons" from Puerto Rico and they sounded terrible for my band , then he went back to his standard type of timbs and they sound so much better. The bigger the timbs the lower the sound, and harder to hear. ...JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[Raymond]

The most currently used timbale heads are the Remo's Ambassador Weatherkings / Evans G1, clear or coated. Coated will give you more warm sound and less overtones. The clear will give you more volume because of the overtones. However, the sound with these heads is modern and not traditional. These are "thin ply" type of heads. A thicker ply will give you the fat sound you are looking for. Despite all this, don't forget your tuning will play into this big time....

Important is that the taller the shell of the timbale the more traditional sound or fat sound you will have..also brass gives you more traditional sound that any type of steel. Also, the thicker the shell, like those old Slingerlands and Leedy Ludwigs in brass will do the trick for the old warm sound. (In the old salsa or mambo recordings you'll get that warm/fat traditional sound because the timbales were made with a thicker shell. Now, the manufacturers are aiming for volume with a thinner shell, that creates more overtones in the cascara and overall sound, and of course, economy in their costs).

Most of the modern timbales with the new "tapered" shells will give more modern sounds...Is a matter of "playing" with the tuning of the heads...Also, your sticks...the thicker the sticks, more traditional sound).

I've seen people putting Remo's Rennaisance or Emperors for the old school "fat sound". Fyberskins were fashionable once but they will give you a crispier sound than the Rennaisance and Emperors. Have not try it but I've heard the Remo Smooth White will give you a "fat" sound too. Remo Pinstripes give you very crisp sound in the macho but in the hembra, if tuned low, will give you a fat sound. If tuned low the pinstripes will give you a fat sound. The Remo Powerstroke models, that their intention is to avoid the overtones, are OK also but they are mid thin heads....

Combinations? I've seen Remo Ambassadors on the macho in most cases and Emperors or Rennaisance in the hembra for the fat sound. (Specially, the Emperor's Dark Pinstripe).

All this is a trial and error sometimes...To avoid having to invest in heads, etc, etc.....Check with other timbaleros what they have and how it sounds... Personally, I am a modern sound with Remo Ambassadors Clear all the way.... Others here could tell you what they have.....

I hope this helps you. Let us know what you get....

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1092330191

[yalla]

JC and Raymond, thanks so much for all the info...
JC, forgive me but I do not agree with you... timbales evolved from old French orchestra timpani (kettle drums) and I think large diameters are closer to this "heritage". For instance, I have a CD by Orquesta Revè ( "la explosiòn del momento" ) where the aim is to recreate some old fashioned sound - that's why they often sing with the "voz de la vieja" in this record. Well, the timbales here are quite low tuned, with a fat but open sound, where the deepness of the shells seems not to matter much.
More generally speaking, I think you get a full and richer sound on the hembra with large diameters, when you play balance with the fingertips (you know, on the count of 2 and 4). That's all my little opinion, I am light years away from you masters, so I may be wrong...
Well, back to my set: it's solid brass, quite thick (but not very much), shells are 8" deep. I play with 3/8" Vater hickory sticks. I know, too light and small sticks... but I cannot play with heavier and/or thicker sticks... I feel like playing with baseball bats...
In the end, in Italy there are not much good timbaleros I can talk to, of course there are some great players and teachers, but totally out of my reach!
Anyway, I think I will go with Coated Ambassador on the macho, and renaissance on the hembra.
Any comment?

[Raymond]

Yella,

The combination you are getting of heads will do the trick. Thicker sticks? Believe it or not, the artist models from some "old school" timbaleros or the ones they use are thick and short sticks. Changuito's Regal Tips and the ones Tito Puente used are thick and short sticks. Willie Rosario, another timbalero from the old school and Manny Oquendo also use thick sticks. Do not know the brand or models they use.

Thick sticks will tend to give you more volume but tend to lower your tone. If you have a modern tuning and use a thick stick you will get lots of volume but with a low tones. If you use a low tuning with a thick stick it will give you a "fat" sound with a little volume....

Regarding your proficiency, keep on practicing...The best is to do rudiments and practice, practice...

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1092413491

[JohnnyConga]

Hello Yalla...I am VERY familiar with the French influence on instruments being played in Cuba. The wooden flute(Charanga), the tympani from France, the violins from France, were infuential on the Cuban music scenario....JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[JohnnyConga]

Yalla...what part of Italy are you in?.....JC Johnny Conga---de Treviso.......

[yalla]

Obviously JC, I know you are VERY familiar with the roots of Cuban music. Much much more than me. It was only the opinion I got studying, reading, and listening to all I could about this.
Anyway, I live in Verona (you know, the town of Romeo & Juliet... ) which is not so far from Treviso. Why Treviso? Do you know someone from there? Let me know!
And thank you Raymond for all your help!

[Isaac]

Thanks guys for all your great input. I'm playing Ludwig Timbales from the
70's. Their 13" & 14" and super bright & loud. I have no problem cutting through a big band with them. I tried brass once and no one could hear me on the other side of the bandstand. I got Cali at JCR to build me a better stand for them about 6 years ago. He dissuaded me from trading them in by telling me that these were the same as Orestes Vilato played throughtout the 70s.
JCR makes a 14"/15" standard set with the steel shells a bit deeper and they're also slightly thicker.
I would like to get a deeper sound from my Hembra like Reve or Oquendo so I'll look for a rennaisance or emporer. I'm extremely happy with the weatherking on the macho. As far as sticks, I try to switch weights depending on the song.
Speaking of sticks, I once saw a well known New York Bongocero
during a gig break, pick up some large tube shaped pillows and played "air timbales" with them. He then asked all of us a " Who am I?" after a couple of
seconds we all answered at the same time
- "MANNY OQUENDO!"
~ Isaac in New Jersey:blues:

[yalla]

Thank you Isaac too!
Well, about sticks thickness, for my hands is not only a matter of thickness in itself but of weight too. If I could find thicker sticks (then the ones I regularly use) with same weight, then I'll go for them. Once I tried the LP Tito Puente unbreakable synthetic sticks... well that's totally un-playable for me. They gave me the feeling that I would have broken heads and dented shells and bells in a few minutes... I could not even imagine to play with such sticks..

[Raymond]

Yalla,

Understand your preference....However, it is good to practice with heavier or thicker sticks sometimes to go to "other levels" of "speed" and/or accuracy...Then, when you get the lighter sticks you will feel the difference...Is going to be ackward and tough at the beginning but you will get proficient at it.

Also, if you use lighter sticks remember your tuning has to be lower than with "heavier or thicker sticks" to get the traditional "fat" sound....

Saludos!