Timbales Newbie needs advice

[taino211]

Hey everyone. My girlfriend just purchased a set of LP Tito Puente Solid Brass timbales (14"/15") for me and I need some advice on the right additional equipment to buy. I come from a rock background so please bare with me. I'm mainly interested in playing modern salsa (Victor Manuelle, Gilberto Santa Rosa, Frankie Negrón, Marc Anthony).

In terms of cowbells, I was looking at the LP Salsa series, specifically the ES 5, 6, or 7. Could you guys recommend one?

I also needed some advice in regards to the cymbal. I'm not quite sure if most timbaleros use a crash or a ride cymbal. Could someone clarify this?

Also, do most timbaleros use something like the LP Jam Block for the "clave"?

Could you also recommend some good instructional videos for beginners (Books would be welcomed as well)? How about some good tutorials on the Internet about timbal set up/facts?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm just excited to get into this new world of timbales.

Thanks,

-Ryan

[Tonio]

Hey Taino,
the salsa models are great. they have a more open and ringing
overtone. It may or may not work for everything. Be sure to get a small for cha cha, and one large for mambo work.I could'nt tell you which model. Someone else will probably tell you which is best.
Cymbal should be a crash. And Jam blocks are good for clave.

good luck
T

[Raymond]

Tonio,

Recommendations of what you need for those timbales. This is just to begin... (Based on budget/quality)!

1 - LP Salsa Uptown Timbale Bell

2 - LP Original Chacha Bell (Black or Chrome) or Salsa Low Tone Cha Cha Bell. (Here is your call what pitch you want, high or low. Original Cha Cha Bell is high but not as high as Salsa Series own "high pitch").

3 - LP Low Tone (Red) Jam Block (the most used) (Blue one is high, recommend this one to get it later).

4 - Paper Thin Crash Cymbal (This is your investment...I recommend here to go with a good one, expensive??? Yes but worth it... '16 or 18', Ziljian A or Zildjian Azuka Salsa Timbale. If not get a budget medium thin or paper thin crash you feel comfortable with).

5 - Cymbal stand. (Anything here as long as it holds the cymbal...)

6 - Timbale sticks (for starter and to help you "develop", get some thick ones and "regular ones". With budget in mind, recommend both kinds of Vic Firth Alex Acuna, Conquistador (Red or White - Thin) and Vic Firth Alex Acuna El Palo (purple - thicker one). If you have the money, try both of the Zildjian's Marc Quinones Timbale models, Salsa which is thin, and Rock which is thicker... Get more than one pair.

7 - Good "bags" or hard case or cases to carry the timbales around, cymbals and sticks

8 - Good heads....LP's own standard heads are OK but get yourself some Remo Ambassador Weatherkings Clear or Coated. (If Evans, G1s)

This is the minimum investment to start "feeling" like a timbalero...

If you want to be "modern" get yourself a piccolo snare and a "snare concert stand" (not too piccolo 13 or 14 inch).

Good books?????

1 - Tito Puente's (and Jim Payne's) "Drumming with the Mambo King" - Great book with lots info. In my opinion the best basic book out there for timbales....From history of the instrument, the "son-mambo-salsa history, Tito's bio, the basics of the instrument to "complex" like variations, "jumping clave", changing patterns, etc. Includes application to trap drumming too. Includes a CD with demo of some of the basics and complex, clave, cascareo, etc, etc, and even includes some classic songs from Tito with the timbale musical charts...Solos, etc. Great book!

2 - Victor Rendon's book (forgot ame). Good book but not as thorough as Tito's.

Ride? Crash? Cymbals???? Old School like a little bit of ride because with the old arrangements the sound tof he "crashing" of the cymbal was preferred to be subtle. Ride helps you with those "mambo jazz" patterns on the cymbal also. Crash has been used more among timbaleros with the new arrangements and hit close to the bell for the "mambo jazz" patterns. Note, some timbaleros use "splashes" too for effect and include it in their set up with a crash cymbal. (Especially, those guys that have recorded in the albums of those artists you mention, Marc Quinones, Chago Martinez and Tito de Gracia).

This is it....Tell us what you get and how it goes...

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1079202913

[taino211]

Tonio,

Recommendations of what you need for those timbales. This is just to begin... (Based on budget/quality)!

1 - LP Salsa Uptown Timbale Bell

2 - LP Original Chacha Bell (Black or Chrome) or Salsa Low Tone Cha Cha Bell. (Here is your call what pitch you want, high or low. Original Cha Cha Bell is high but not as high as Salsa Series own "high pitch").

3 - LP Low Tone (Red) Jam Block (the most used) (Blue one is high, recommend this one to get it later).

4 - Paper Thin Crash Cymbal (This is your investment...I recommend here to go with a good one, expensive??? Yes but worth it... '16 or 18', Ziljian A or Zildjian Azuka Salsa Timbale. If not get a budget medium thin or paper thin crash you feel comfortable with).

5 - Cymbal stand. (Anything here as long as it holds the cymbal...)

6 - Timbale sticks (for starter and to help you "develop", get some thick ones and "regular ones". With budget in mind, recommend both kinds of Vic Firth Alex Acuna, Conquistador (Red or White - Thin) and Vic Firth Alex Acuna El Palo (purple - thicker one). If you have the money, try both of the Zildjian's Marc Quinones Timbale models, Salsa which is thin, and Rock which is thicker... Get more than one pair.

7 - Good "bags" or hard case or cases to carry the timbales around, cymbals and sticks

8 - Good heads....LP's own standard heads are OK but get yourself some Remo Ambassador Weatherkings Clear or Coated. (If Evans, G1s)

This is the minimum investment to start "feeling" like a timbalero...

If you want to be "modern" get yourself a piccolo snare and a "snare concert stand" (not too piccolo 13 or 14 inch).

Good books?????

1 - Tito Puente's (and Jim Payne's) "Drumming with the Mambo King" - Great book with lots info. In my opinion the best basic book out there for timbales....From history of the instrument, the "son-mambo-salsa history, Tito's bio, the basics of the instrument to "complex" like variations, "jumping clave", changing patterns, etc. Includes application to trap drumming too. Includes a CD with demo of some of the basics and complex, clave, cascareo, etc, etc, and even includes some classic songs from Tito with the timbale musical charts...Solos, etc. Great book!

2 - Victor Rendon's book (forgot ame). Good book but not as thorough as Tito's.

Ride? Crash? Cymbals???? Old School like a little bit of ride because with the old arrangements the sound tof he "crashing" of the cymbal was preferred to be subtle. Ride helps you with those "mambo jazz" patterns on the cymbal also. Crash has been used more among timbaleros with the new arrangements and hit close to the bell for the "mambo jazz" patterns. Note, some timbaleros use "splashes" too for effect and include it in their set up with a crash cymbal. (Especially, those guys that have recorded in the albums of those artists you mention, Marc Quinones, Chago Martinez and Tito de Gracia).

This is it....Tell us what you get and how it goes...

Saludos!

Raymond/Tonio,

Thanks for the suggestions.

Do you guys know of any instructional videos that are good for newbies?

And I wasn't patient enough to wait for your responses so I ended up getting an LP Salsa Timbale Bell (the ES-5). Is there a big difference between this one and the "Uptown" model? I also got the red Jam Block.

I'm not really interested in getting any "cha-cha" bells yet since I first need to learn the basics. Throwing in the cha cha bell would probably just confuse me.

In terms of the crash cymbal, can you recommend some good, cheaper cymbals? Maybe around the $99 range? I'm pretty sure you're recommending the top of the line with the Zildjian Azuka Salsa Timbale crash. That's probably meant for pros and i'm definitely not a pro when it comes to timbales.

And once again, any online tutorials on the basics of timbal playing? I'm a visual person so I'd also like to see some videos as well.

Thanks again for all of your help,

-Ryan

[Raymond]

Budget cymbals? Check Sabians B8 and Zildjian ZT any thin or medium crash in a 16 or 18. Appears you are acquainted with the sound you want, go to the store and try them.

ES-5 bell is the small bell. (Doesn't come standard with all LP Tito Puente timbales?). It will do. Is just smaller and with a lower pitch than the one I recommended that is the ES-6.

Good videos??? Not that many concentrated on timbales. Recommend you check LP's site and other places in the net. Sorry!. There is one from Changuito but I think is more intermediate.

Cha-cha bell??? I think is essential. More than the jam block. Is used in very important patterns that are basics such as "cha-cha" and "a caballo" (horse riding) beats.

Highly recommend the Tito Puente book!

Saludos!

[franc]

raymond, mi pana!! hope all is well! please tell me what kind of cymbal you sugest?? i have a matador timbal an i need to buy a cymbal. which do you prefered thin or medium?? 16 or 18 in. in your post you recomended sabians B8 and zildjian ZT, are they good for my needs?? thanks a million again. my best to all and ache!!!! franc:D

[Raymond]

Franc,

Sabian's B8s and Zildjian's ZTs are pretty good. (Not famialirzed with Paiste the other big brand). What makes them cheaper is that they use some metal alloys that in the case of the the expensive models is mostly bronze. Cymbals will last you depending on how you treat them.

With cymbals, you have to try them and see if that is what you like.

Saludos

[Norte]

Do you guys know of any instructional videos that are good for newbies?

There's not much out there, but you should pick up Adventures in Rhythm/Close Up On Bongos & Timbales Vol.2.

I'm not really interested in getting any "cha-cha" bells yet since I first need to learn the basics. Throwing in the cha cha bell would probably just confuse me.

The cha-cha bell is part of the basic set-up.

[tamboricua]

Vaya Taíno 211,

Hope all is well! In order to get a better picture and understand the styles of contemporary timbaleros like: Chago Martínez, Marc Quiñones, Pablito Padín, Robert Vilera, Ralphy Irizarry, Tito de Gracia, etc., what I would like to suggest is that you go back a little further and study the styles of their favorites timbal players. Find out who influenced them as players. This is true for any instrument you want to learn! In that way, you will understand from where they are coming from (playing style), what they are doing, and why they do it that way. If I were you, I will go further back, get a pair of 3/8 timbales sticks, and start learning how to play a Danzón. Check out recordings of Antonio Arcaño y sus Maravillas, Acerina y su Danzonera, the danzones Orestes Vilató recorded recently with Cachao, master playing! Understand for what this instrument was created for, then go forward! "Un timbalero que no sabe como tocar un danzón no puede denominarse timbalero". Don't get me wrong here, I don't want to discourage you, and I know that you want to play what it's hip today, but that's my personal suggestion and humble opinion. Definitely, get a cha cha bell!

Mis dos chavitos prietos!

All the best,

Jorge Ginorio



Edited By tamboricua on 1081195914

[Raymond]

Tamboricua,

With you all the way! Any serious player must know the basics and history of what is doing.... Couldn't agree more with your suggestion!

Saludos!