Heads for Timbales

[agogobil]

What are the preferred heads for timbales?

[JohnnyConga]

If you can find them they are called Weather Kings......I believe that's what they are called...JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[tamboricua]

I do have some Remo Renaissance drumheads mounted on a JCR timbal. The sound is very reminiscent of those Leedy/Ludwig Humberto Morales model timbales. Vintage sound! Remo's Weatherking Ambassador coated is very popular on timbales. For a more contemporary sound you can try Remo's Ambassador clear. This is what Marc Quiñones, and Bobby Allende are using these days. I believe Evans has some new Timbales heads out in the market, but I have not try them yet! Hope this helps!

Saludos, Jorge Ginorio

[agogobil]

Thanks people ... on another forum they've recommended Aquarian Modern Vintage heads and also the Remo Renaissance ... I'm guessing that you want to control the ring a little.

iLo tengo!

[Raymond]

The most common used are:

Remo Ambassador Coated (Evans G1 Coated)

Also, used are Remo Ambassador Clears (or Evans G1) when you want more overtone or volume than the coated ones.

Remo Ebony in Diplomat thickness are commonly used in the "big paila" for a deep sound. Also, seen Remo Pinstripes but they tend to give you a very sharp not traditional sound. Some people use Remo Powerstroke 3 for controlled sound specially in recording situations.

There you go....

[pini]

Could some one tell me ... Does mounting heads from one type on different kinds of "Paila" or brand (but same size) i.e Lp steel , Lp Brass , Pearl Steel , Pearl Brass , JCR , etc ... will cause different sounds when hitting the timbale head ?
I ignore for now from the sound of the "Paila" in cascara , and ask only on the sounds made by the heads.

I ask because I have a pearl primero timbales , that came with Diplomat coated kind of heads , and I dont like there sound nor touch , If I mount on them Remo Ambassador Clear or renaissance , will the heads produce the same sound as if they where on JCR timbales for example ?

I have also noticed when playing on Remo timbales mounted with renaissance , that the stick bounces very good on them.
Will it bounce the same if my pearl had renaissance heads , and I stretch them the same as in the remo timbales ?

pini.

[Raymond]

Unless there is a particular situation with a specific type or brand of timbales, you should not have a problem mounting any of the drumheads in your timbales. (I have not seen anything except some of the very cheap kind outther that sometimes thicker heads like Remo Pinstripes could be very hard to tune because of the cheap material of their tuning lugs). However, yes, depending on the size and the material of the paila you will get a different sound, although sometimes only noticeable to the trained ear in some cases and in some cases is obvious.

Top of the line timbales will give you a better chance of getting a good sound because their materials tend to be of better quality, i.e., stainless steel or brass and now phosporous bronze. Most of the budget timbales are made of just steel and not thick enough for a good sound. Some are of better quality some are not. Also, how big the "paila" is will affect the sound. A bigger taller paila, aka, thunderthimbs" will give a "fatter sound". A smaller paila will give you a "sharper" sound. (A JCR timbale tends to have a "taller" paila and in comparison with LP Tito Puentes, their sound is going to be "fatter" than the LPs. You could have them sound the same with combinations of heads and tuning, etc, etc. Is a matter of playing with the tuning, heads, etc. Another good example, LP prevous generation timbales, their cascara is drier and their sound fatter because the stainless steel and the brass in the pailas was thicker. Now, in their new Timbales for sake of getting more projection in their sound, the materials are not as thick as before. You notice the difference right away when you play both "generations" of timbales. LP has had three generations of timbales. The latest has been out there since the late 80s)

The drumsticks you use could make a difference also in the sound. A thicker drumstick will give a "fatter" sound and depending on your tuning will give more bouncing in the head. That is another factor

There is one thing you have to be aware regarding heads sold outhere. Remo, Evans and the other have series of heads that their sound differs in their series. Some will give you more overtones, rings, they are quieter, etc etc. I am more familiarized with Remo heads than with Evans although they have equivalents.

Weatherkings is Remo's most popular because of their projection and they are recommended for a "generic" sound. However, they are two kinds coated and clear. Coated with take some of the projection out and have less overtones. Clears are louder and have more ring and overtones. Then, they have all heads in three thickness, Diplomat, Ambassador and Emperor. I believe Remo Diplomats are their thinnest heads. (I confuse Diplomats with Emperor types. I think Emperor are the thicker film head. Ambassador is in the middle of them). Personally, since I like my tuning just a little big high, with Diplomats the timbales sound like a tin box of "crackers". I've seen people using them and getting a great sound with them. I guess they do something to their tuning that I cannot get.

Like I mentioned before Remo has different classifications for the thickness of their heads and then they have "series" of heads. Weatherkings are the most used. Renaissance is a series of the head. Powerstroke 3 and 4 is another that their thing is that they take away the overtones and some people prefer it for recordings but they are not good for volume. In all series of heads, the difference is the projection of the sound. They have other types like Pinstripes, Suede, Soft White, etc, etc. In some way, what series will you get depends on where are you going to play or what sound you like. Everything is a combination of the thickness and the series of head. I recommend visit remo's site and get and idea of their series. I've seen all combinations used by people out there. Some combinations been more popular than others

The series and thickness of the head and how you tune them will determine how your sound is going to be together with the material and type of timbale. The combinations are endless in some way. Therefore, there is your big decision. You have to experiment or listen to others to see what you like. Some people like "old school" sound and they go for thicker heads because when thicker heads are tune low they give you that "old school" fat sound. You have lots of choices and possible combination on heads. Personally, I am an Remo Weatherkings Ambassador Clear or Evans G1 type of guy. (Most people are by the way. Like I mentioned before is the most common heads on timbales today).

You could have a budget line timbales and make them sound great when you use the correct tuning, heads, etc. The other way, bad sound, could be obtained from a top of the line timbales but that everything else is not done right. Like I mentioned you have to work with your set by getting the best sound out of them.

Good luck in founding the sound you like!



Edited By Raymond on Mar. 17 2003 at 15:48

[pini]

Raymond , thanks for the detailed explanation. I can understand now what parameters influence the sound quality or type.

But the reason I asked this question is that I have an oportunity to buy a JCR timbales set and am confused whether to spend the money or stick with my pearl with few adjustments like replacing the lp salsa cowbell to JCR cowbell and the diplomat heads to something better.

The pearl is primero , stainless steel 13",14" and I dont know the thickness of its shell and depth compared to other brands.

Does anyone familiar with those timbales model ?

pini.

[Raymond]

By all "conosseurs" of percussion instruments, anything from JCR timbales, bongos and congas are a great purchase. (Hopefully I got the word right). They are expensive because because they are "hand made." Cali claims the timbales are full stainless steel and of course they are handmade. JCR timbales are famous for having a traditional sound and look. (I think there is no tilting stand for example). Their pailas are tall and their cascara is very dry. (At least, the ones I have tried. Not everything made by JCR, even if it is the same type of instrument, sounds alike. So check them out first. Try your possible purchase first and make sure you like it. Try the cascara first. For your info, last time I was at Cali's shop he was putting Weatherking Ambassadors Coated on them and I do not know if he still does). For some people buying a JCR timbale is also an investment because they increase or keep their value. (Example: you could get a LP or Meinl Luis Conte Here for around $370 to $425. JCRs, if found are around $450 and sometimes more).

You have to check what are the sizes in the JCR timbales. If they are 14/15 drums most definitively the sound will be different than a 13/14 set tup. (JCR makes both combinations).

The Pearl timbales, that by the way, looking at the photo at their site look like the JCR, have a "tall" paila so they sound could be "fatter", appear to be a good set of timbales. (Based on what I see is their price...they are priced somewhere where the Matador and Meinl Marathon are. Also, by the way they look, good cowbell set up and stand, they appear to be a good set to play professionally like the Meinl Marathon. Please note Matador's are not a good choice to play salsa professionally since their cowbell set up does not hold the current cowbell set up that a salsa player must have). A good question here is how is its cascara in comparison to other. Does it feel the same? Does it feel cheap?

I think you could get a good sound with the Pearl Primero timbales, however, I have a feeling you will notice the difference in sound if you a get a high quality timbales like a JCR, Pearl Elite, LP Tito Puente or Meinl Luis Conte. (By the way, the info on Pearl's site about Primeros been stainless steel is incorrect. Glen Caruba from Pearl confirmed they are just chromed steel).

Personally, I do not feel comfortable with a 13/14 set up but if you are and you could get a full sound then go for it. (14/15 sound is a more fuller sounding set up).

My only concern with a JCR timbale is their parts in case anything breaks. Also, they are tall pailas and I like one piece cases for timbales and most of the ones manufacture here in PR JCR timbales will not fit. They are a good buy depending on the price they are giving you. (Currently JCR timbales are used/endorsed by a couple of famous timbaleros, Endel Dueno and Edgardo Morales).

Your decision here also.....Good luck!



Edited By Raymond on Mar. 17 2003 at 20:28

[pini]

Thank Raymond.
You have helped a lot.

pini