Giraldo Rodriguez-Afro Tambores Bata - by Tomas Altmann

[Thomas Altmann]

Dr. Zaragemca:

Thanks for your reply.

As to "clandestine recordings": The record that is discussed here was definitely recorded in a studio. A musician does not walk into a recording studio to be recorded in secret.

Also, the individual tracks are carrying separate numbers on my record.

Giraldo Rodriguez was definitely one of the "top notch" players of his generation. Compared to this status, I find that he is generally under-represented on records, unlike Jesus Perez.

This is different on the record in discussion. In fact, apart from Giraldo's brother Adriano, not a single musician is mentioned. As much as I hate this inaccuracy, we must take into account, however, that it is a common habit of record companies that cater to the broad public of "music consumers", to name the head artist exclusively. It has been like that in all recordings of dance music (as opposed to "serious music"!!), and it is common (mal-)practice to this day. So probably the Orfeons did not realize they were producing something heavy back then.

I am currently corresponding with John Amira who helped me tremendously in re-writing the article. (I'm still waiting for his final approval before publishing it; it will be way more informative then.) Well, John is going to send me a photo that shows Pablo together with a group of bata players including Giraldo, Torregrosa and Raul Diaz, which admittedly does not prove that Giraldo was Roche's student, but shows that he was nevertheless a member of his group of drummers, meaning they performed in various personal combinations either on his drums or any related set. And, by the way, playing with Roche and his students on a regular basis, nobody could have resisted to learn their style of playing!

I hope the article will soon be out. David has seen it already. I think it will be great, thanks to the people who have helped in this venture.

Greetings,

Thomas



Edited By Thomas Altmann on 1154022771

[zaragenca]

Thanks for the replay Altmann,there could be many pictures of them becouse the fame of Pablo Roche,and a lot of Bata players were going to the places were Roche was plying to learn from him,but Roche grow up playing with his father and Aguedo Morales,later incorporating Raul 'Nasaco' Diaz,and the teenager Jesus Perez, and there is the evidence of what I said where Roche,Aguedo and Jesus Perez are doing several important presentations with Dr. Obdulio Morales and Ortiz,...if anybody else would have been an student of Roche and would have,('SENIORITY'), with that Set of Bata),that person is the one which have to be set in the percussion ensemble even for recording....The fact that the person was Jesus Perez,it shows,(for Bataleros), that he is the continuation in that lineage of Bata-Set...I have hundreds of pictures which a lot of people and musicians,but not everybody have been my students of percussion....In relation to the recording I still don't know if it was done in studio,becouse I haven't listen to it, and you are not providing the name of any studio,or the date of recording,(not the date of release of the records).Anyway I'm happy that people like you are interested in this subject which is part of my culture.Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragenca on 1154024707

[Facundo]

Guys,

Just came across some info in the booklet that comes with a new set of CDs called "Tambor Lucumi". Clearly, this is set is a "must have" for anyone interested in Cuban bata. There are 3 cds in the package with two dedicated to bata. The third recording has both arara and guiro tracks. Andre Chacon is the featured Olubata along with two of his young family members. The history he gives clearly states that Giraldo played with Pablo.

I also have to disagree with Doc Z's speculation that the recording was in someway clandestine. As I noted before, the album cover shown in the Thomas' article is not the original. Giraldo's picture is on the front of the original which would indicate that a concerted effort was made to record Giraldo.

Facundo

[tamboricua]

Congaforum,

Interesting!!!!! While we are still on this subject. Someone is auctioning bataleros photos on E-bay. Check out the attached pic, according to the auctioner it does features:

Gabino-Okonkolo

Jesus Perez-Iya

Giraldo Rodriguez-Itotele

Saludos,

JG



Edited By tamboricua on 1154191083

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... aleros.jpg

[Thomas Altmann]

Jorge: This is exactly the same drum trio as on Afro Tambores Bata. The okonkolero, Gabino, is also playing on Mongo's "Bembe" record (later incorporated on the CD "Our Man In Havana").

The same photo was used by Teca records for a re-issue of the original Gilberto Valdes production "Rezo de Santo: Ritmo de Santo de la Tierra de Africa en Arara". The Teca re-issue was titled "Santeria Cubana". It featured an instrument called "Valdimbula", sounding like a marimbula. Orfeon published this recording later as "Afro Cuban Roots, Cantos y Toques de Santos, Vol. 3". This is one of the photos that John Amira sent me. It will appear in my article.

Facundo: I have seen already two other cover designs different from mine. If you could provide the one with Giraldo on the front, it would be perfect.

Greetings,

Thomas

P.S.: Who or what is "Silverspurr"? Can someone remember? Sounds somehow familiar to me ...



Edited By Thomas Altmann on 1154162008

[zaragenca]

To the brothers in this subject,not body is more glad than me in relation to his foto,it just show all along what I said,that if Jesus Perez would be play in a setting he would be the one playing Iya,and by the time of this picture Roche was ,ebae,for some time,...Giraldo started into the Bata after Jesus Perez he is a disciple of Jesus Perez,not of Pablo Roche,(even when he could have been observing Pablo Roche playing)...In relation to the recording everybody is welcome to the debate,but I'm still not getting the name of the recording studios and the date of the recording....To brother Facundo,...when was the time that, (the article), said Giraldo did play with Pablo Roche?.Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragenca on 1154190989

[tamboricua]

Giraldo started into the Bata after Jesus Perez he is a disciple of Jesus Perez,not of Pablo Roche,(even when he could have been observing Pablo Roche playing) Zaragemca

Zaragemca,

I understand that if Giraldo learned his craft from Jesus Perez, whether or not he got the chance to perform directly with Pablo Roche, wouldn't he still under Roche's bata lineage?

Saludos,

JG



Edited By tamboricua on 1154192620

[Berimbau]

Silverspur is NYC percussionist Mark Sanders. His dad Morty Sanders made the world's BEST shekeres and hand built African drums in the 60's and 70's. Mark's a second generation conguero/historian, what we might call a "legacy." I know his dad would be so proud of him!! Here's his E=Bay thing:

http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws....spurr53

and his site:

http://www.homestead.com/silverspurr/home.html


Saludos,


Berimbau

[zaragenca]

Welcome Tamboricua, he would be part of the lineage,but the teaching of Bata's interpretation takes a long commitment,(years), from the teacher, (it is up to him what he is going to share),... not everybody could say that he was tought by Roche when it didn't happen...at least not to me...Thanks for the picture.Dr. Zaragemca



Edited By zaragenca on 1154202045

[Thomas Altmann]

Berimbao: Thanks for the reminder! I love these instruments!

To Dr. Zaragemca: Orfeon has repeatedly worked with that particular drum trio in the company's own studios in Mexico city. Everything seems to speak for the probability that the record in question had been recorded in Mexico, too. But the fact that Orfeon has used Cuban recordings of the Conjunto Folklorico Nacional, together with the aready mentioned Gilberto Valdes production, to re-issue them under the false name of "Grupo Folklorico de Cuba" in 2002, again without any liner notes, insecures me. ####, to put it straight: I think they either have idiots working for them, or their managers are criminals. For the first possibility speaks the bad sound quality of these CDs.

Thomas

[SkinDeep]

I've bought a couple of cd's from silverspur, real good to do business with.

[Thomas Altmann]

Group:

My new article is on the web. Same address: http://www.ochemusic.de/artgiro.htm .

Enjoy.

TA

[Berimbau]

Hey Thomas!!!
I think your article is very well done and a wonderful example of the type of detective work necessary in modern ethnomusicology. I hope that you might publish it somewhere for the general reader to learn from and enjoy. Until then, congaboard posters are advised to click on the link and read it.


Saludos,



Berimbau

[Facundo]

To the brothers in this subject,not body is more glad than me in relation to his foto,it just show all along what I said,that if Jesus Perez would be play in a setting he would be the one playing Iya,and by the time of this picture Roche was ,ebae,for some time,...Giraldo started into the Bata after Jesus Perez he is a disciple of Jesus Perez,not of Pablo Roche,(even when he could have been observing Pablo Roche playing)...In relation to the recording everybody is welcome to the debate,but I'm still not getting the name of the recording studios and the date of the recording....To brother Facundo,...when was the time that, (the article), said Giraldo did play with Pablo Roche?.Dr. Zaragemca

Doc Z,

That was the liner notes booklet from a new cd set. This is the link:

http://www.earthcds.com/caribbean/cuba/cuba-chacon.shtml

Tomas,

I will dig up the LP and post a picture of the cover.

Facundo

[JohnnyConga]

Yo Berimbau ...I used to "hang and bang" with Morty in the Central ParK" "Rumba wars" as I called them....Morty was a nice guy and Architect by trade and master drum and chekere maker. He made Batas too....we had a great time in the Park jammin back then and Morty was a very serious cat when it came to "jammin"....if he didn't like you he wouldn't sit with you, or vice a versa....but those were the days!...."JC" Johnny Conga...