Is the player or the instrument ?

[caballoballo]

Bongoceros,

The topic is related to an e-mail I received from somebody who sell instruments thru e-bay,in this case a 1970 vintage Gon Bops 7.375" Macho and a 9.5" Hembra Walnut Bongó actually the measurements of the play area are 7" & 9". He claim he has more than a 100 Congas and Bongos so I ask him if he have any other vintage set for a reasonable price. Also I told him about the 2 Bongos I have to which he call them to be low price and easy to find. There is an old said in spanish,no es la flecha que es el Indio. You could have a $1000 Bongó but if you don't have the Flavor,Cadence,the Skill ,and the Rythm to play (Latin Music in my case) it is going to sound like shit and useless. I kind of got mad because he down graded my Bongos, I mean I am a player not a collector so I don't need a very expensive Bongó to display and brag about in from of my friends,I need one that sounds good ,can take the beating of going from Club to Club,get drunk with me and enjoy the playing time. By the way I have ordered the Timba Crowns to replace the ones on the Pearl Elite Bongó, I am trying to reduce the weight. Guess what, the center piece is made of steel and weight about a pound,I guess the were trying to make it indestructible,I let you know the outcome. Pa' encima Bongoceros.



Edited By caballoballo on 1130340763

[onile]

Alafia Caballoballo!
¿Cómo esta mi pana?
¡Espero que todo este bien contigo!

You know, there are collectors that go around making some of these incredible purchases (like when GonBops first closed down), of rediculous numbers, but what they see this as is an INVESTMENT! They don't see the true value, like the one you described above. They are looking at the "return on their investment", or "ROI" as it's referred to in the Business world. The sad fact of the matter is that in doing this, they put a pinch on the real lovers of the product they've purchased, in this case latin percussion (congas, bongos). I too have come across some of these folks (descaraos') on Ebay, but have just turned and walked away.

We have instruments that we use that at some point will be considered a collectors item, someone may offer us some good $ for it/them, but it's in the spirit of the musician to sell or hang on to what is cherished and used! What you have in your possession is precious to you my friend, the value is in your estimate, don't let this "descarao" get to you with his garbage talk! ¡échalo a caminar!

BTW! Did you see the GonBops bongo pics that I posted in the "GonBops" post?

Suave!
Onile!



Edited By onile on 1130341743

[caballoballo]

Onile,como estás Hermano,

Yes ,it is sad that some people value more the money and not the instrument. To me the Valje I have ,made by Lp can not be measure in dollars and cents because it has been with me for 18 years and has a sentimemtal value which can not be measure in money,by the way my girlfriend told me that if I ever try to sell the Valje she will buy it. I know everybody in this forum value their intruments on something that money can not buy. When you are playing your instrument become part of you and you don't have a price. So al Carajo with that motherflowers descarao seller.

Yes,I read your post about Bon Gops and also I went into their web page,nice instruments,the DrumsWork.com has them on stock. Have you see the Sol Bongos and Conga web page,they have one Bongó on 7" & 9" Mahogany wood but I forgot to ask for the price.Pa' encima



Edited By caballoballo on 1130344638

[onile]

Alafia Caballoballo!

Yes, I've seen the Sol website and as I understand it, the new GonBops models are somehow connected with Sol. I'm not too clear on what the connection is, but if you look closely at the hardware (the rim), there is a similarity! I actually love the rim myself, I have a set (3), of Fat Congas that have the same rim! Estoy esperando que me lleguen dos mas tumbadoras de GonBops, cuando los recibo pondré unas fotos para ilústralos.

Suave Hermano!
Onile!

[Isaac]

re: "It's not the arrow, it's the Indian?"
I hear this all the time.

This is true up to a point.

Suppose your going in to the studio to do a recording?
Wouldn't you want the better mic and the better
acoustics?....the same with an instrument. Of course
you have to feel comfortable and confident with it.
If you feel good with what you have, that's beautiful.

Some players keep searching for a better sounding
instrument, when instead they should just practice.

But a good(skilled) Indian deserves a good arrow, NO?
He's earned it. He may not absolutely require it,
but he's open minded and dready for the next level
and he certainly wouldn't turn it down.
We all want to grow.


~ ISAAC ~

[caballoballo]

Isacc, yes I understant you. Every part on the instrument play a role in the sound,the skin,your tunning,the quality,the wood or in the case of fiberglass some is hand layered some is machined but the most important part is the player and the way he plays. Lots of practice makes you more fluid in your execution and also makes you sound better. Many topics on this forums emphazise that better skins naturals or synthetics have an impact on the sound. An instrument is like Wine,the older the better(sometimes a $5.00 Bottle taste better than a $100 one) but that does not mean it has to be too expensive plus you always know what are your needs .Pa' encima Bongoceros.



Edited By caballoballo on 1130352885

[Raymond]

You bring a great dilema and an interesting one! The quality of the instrument, the heads, the design and even the weight of your hand have influence in the sound. (Have you notice the difference betwen the Matador and the LP Gen II difference in sound despite they are made of the same material....It is the design. Assuming you put the same heads in Matador).

A good player will find his/her tuning in any instrument and get a good sound. However, the sound might not be as good because of bad heads or bad projecton by a badly designed instrument.

For some people, the tuning come into place because of it is to the weight or style of playing. But again, some people will get a good sound of "anything."

What's the best thing.....Get a good instrument, get heads that will be to your style, liking, etc and that will give you a tuning that is suitable for you. I am not a Giovanni Hidalgo and I try to play with good sounding instruments to help my case. (Also, I have big hands and I aware that I cannot get a good sound in a hembra head that is too thin...there is something about it...)

Don't over or underestimate instruments neither....The other day that I was lucky to play bongos in the Barreto concert rehearsal, I played with Alberto Muriel's of Mulenze's bongo while Alberto played the Pearl Congas (Barreto was leading)...Let me tell you...from the look the bongo did not say too much but the bongo was a "one piece" very solid with great heads that allowed a great tuning...I sounded great...Alberto told me the bongo was bought in Colombia for less or about $100....What was the bongo or the heads??? I say both...

In my opinion the heads are the most important thing together with the tuning you could achieve with the way you play and second by the bongo itself. (I've played bongos of bad wood of less than $100 with great heads and the sound was great). The difference you will see with a well constructed or a good bongo in an exotic wood or made in a very good way is the quality of projection and the tones...(Hard to explain but you notice it...The other day I was in a rehearsal with a guy with a Cuban made bongo, at least he claimed, made in a very different style and solid wood. The bongo sounded good but had one flaw and it was the tuning...Too high a macho and too but too low an hembra...Still the guy got a good sound out of it but you felt something was missing and was the tuning)!

By the way, played my new Pearl Bobby Allendes and I love them...First time I ever used fiberglass bongos....and prefer it over my Pearl Richie Flores, in wood, that have the same Fyberskings but somehow with the Bobby Allende's I got a a great sound....(The Bobby Allendes although same head size are shorter bongos. Yep, mine have that "steel bridge" but believe it or not they were comfortable).

My 10 cents! Saludos

PS: Caballoballo, tell where you gig to go and see you...(I gig this Friday in Anasco...I know is far but just in case...)



Edited By Raymond on 1130358169

[Charangaman]

Greetings bongoceros, an interesting discussion you have here. I prefer often to listen to old scratchy vinyl records by old time groups than modern, polished bands on cd.

Likewise I have heard Cuban rumberos jamming in the street on rotten old, patched up drums that have mas sabor than concerts given in the royal festival hall with state of the art engineering and chrome, shiny instruments.

I prefer the earthy, soulful sound made with love than a synthetic - too clean almost computerized sound, it's the little anomilies and imperfections which seperate us from kit drummers and machines... In my mind at least..

[caballoballo]

Hermanos,

Every input on this topic have sense and logic (Mr Spock). I remember having and old LP which cost me about a $100,the type with the gray bottoms and I mounted a very thick head on the Hembra and a premounted Macho head made by Coqui Sound,I tell you,it sounded so good that a friend of mine was always trying to convince me to change it for a generation 2 Lp which he own which at the time was more expensive than mine,was the Arrow or the Indian ? The Valje I have is made of Beech wood and is a lot smaller than the Pearl Elite plus the shells are tapered and short,that has an influence on the sound,it is like on a ported speaker where the port shapes the sound to a determined range of frequencies,his sound is as big as the Pearl.

Hace el Habito al Monge ? No is the answer,it is the time he takes to practice his intrument. Me, I practice at least 4 times a week for an hour or more specially if I got to gig,if you don't, you get rusted and slow.

Raymond, I know Albert,he and Ricardo Watts had been with Mulenze for a long time,good solid players. Añasco is kind of far ,Maybe next week we play at Palo 11,I let you Know. So you have the Bobby Allende,nice set,Fiberglass adds more volume,like you said,it is your first time with fiberglass,play your wood one and you will find a different and sweet sound. I take the Valje to 1 gig and the Pearl to the next gig,they add a different sound and tone. Like I said, I am trying to remove some weight from mine because for the first 2 set is ok but on the third set,you start to feel the weight but I tell you the Elite sound is great and powerfull. Yesterday I talked to my cousin who is a wood worker and he told me he has embuia and another black wood in the case I decide to modify the center piece of the Elite after I get the timba Crowns.

So,we cover everything from quality,design,type of material,skins,practice and the player. All those together equal a good solid sound out of the instrument.Still,does it have to be expensive ? Not really, check the example given by Raymond, less than a $100,good skins and wood,skillful player,good sound. Both,la flecha y el Indio. Arre Caballo



Edited By caballoballo on 1130416196

[munequito]

SI NO NACISTES CON CLAVE A TU ENTIERRO NADIE IRA!!.
RUBEN BLADES.