Finger rolls - how many fingers?

[Cohiba]

A bolero pattern I read about in a book advises me to roll from the small finger to the index on my left hand as the second, third and fourth notes, when I did this in front of a Cuban instructor he said I should only ever use the index and middle fingers for rolls on bongo. Peter and Paul as he called them. However I find it more natural and better sounding using the first method.

What do you guys say?

[yoni]

Man, use any kind of rolls you want to - egg rolls, jelly rolls, whatever! You might get more volume at first out of the middle and index fingers, but practicing all kinds of finger rolls (and there are many known kinds) is great, why not? There are kinds of finger rolls traditionally used on zarb, others on darbuka - personally, I apply whatever techniques I can, known or unknown, to whatever drum I can, if I like what I hear!

[Raymond]

There is a saying among (salsa) bongo player that you are either a palm or finger type of player. That is, some people have a hard time getting some sounds out of the bongos because they use the whole palm and can only do certain patterns specially in the hembra. However, the "finger approach" in trying to get some effects or beats, that results in perhaps less volume than palm, is been used a lot to do certain beats or patterns that with the palm are more difficult or will not sound the same.

Don't misunderstand this. It is not that people use their fingers all the time it is just for certain "effects" or hits. I've seen them most of the "finger playing" at the hembra (like I mentioned before). Personally, I am a finger type of guy.

The roll you are talking about is OK with me to do it and for a bolero is appropriate. Sounds like an "effect" or special sound (like I mentioned before).

Some traditionalists, the "palm type" I gather, will go against it but who says what you are doing is incorrect?

In my opinion, regarding bongo playing, the martillo or regular, not improvising pattern, is what you need to be "strict" and not that strict. (Example: In the martillo, some people muffle the macho with just one finger...Would you believe I do mine with two????).

Don't worry about it and go for it...

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1118337172

[Cohiba]

Many thanks for the advice!

So I'll just keep doing what feels right in this specific pattern, it also sounds better. To be honest I don't think he was a bongocero specifically, his main thing was piano but you know how Cubans can play everything.

Talking of Bolero, I am still quite a beginner but I found the Bolero really helped my development in getting the right hand to move quicker back to Martillo starting position and just general break-throughs in my technique. I think it's a great pattern for practice.

[ABAKUA]

On bongo, fingertips are used for quieter playing, with rolls or in solos, Im more of a all fingers/palm type striker, Im quite agressive on bongo for soloing or in rolls and slaps etc

Every song/arrangement is different, as long as what you are playing fits and has a place within the context of the arrangement then do what feels right, there is no defined rule of rolls, be it finger tips or more of a palm action, its the sound you want to achieve, palm or all fingers are used for more agressive and louder chops/rolls.



Edited By ABAKUA on 1118391048

[zaragemca]

The roll, and the way the bongos have been played, changed with the structure of the group in which the bongoceros are performing,it was introduced in the 'trios' and later the sextetos for a more dynamic pulse of the rhythms,( being the Tumbadora at that time observed as to much african for acceptation in the cuban music).Since those instruments were playing without mics,it was ok for the bongoceros to develop the finger-technique of playing,but as the orquestras started incorporating these bongos,the bongoceros,(still without mic's),have to compeat with the brass and the rest of the musicians,so the full hand-technique have to be used in order to be heard. There are differents ways to approach the effects to create differents riffs,all depending who is the teacher.Dr Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1118419346

[Raymond]

The "palm type" of player is the old classic type very suitable for tumbaos . My experience is that the palm player tends to be limited to quarter and eighth notes in its playing. Sounds great and is a sound I even envy but I have never been that type of player. Th finger type player tends to give more 16th notes because it is not stuck with the palm because it relaxes his hands to use more the finger for effects in the improvisational part of the bongosero. (Most modern bongoseros currently recording are "finger type" than palm. Example: A Manny Oquendo, Pablito Rosario are palm types).

The finger type that I am mentioning is relaxing the "palm hit" with more use of the fingers for effects or sounds. In my case, I could say that I have develop my finger playing to give a "brrr" sound with good volume just with the fingers of my right hand. Using your fingers also helps you to attain different tuning in your hits.

Saludos!

[Cohiba]

I really love the old-school bongocero's in the Son tradition when they were the main pulse of the group but still added effects and touches without letting the rhythm suffer.

I was watching a Benny More dvd at the weekend where his Bongocero (I don't know who) was just flicking or snapping the hembra with the middle finger but still getting a deep tone..How I don't know. I need to be quite firm with like four fingers to get that response.

[zaragemca]

Greeting,that one was a monster-bongocero,Clemente'Chicho' Piquero, which influenced Mongo Santamaria,and others percussionists.I did mention him in my article about Afrocuban Percussion.Dr Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1118698789

[Cohiba]

Many thanks, I will look for more info on him, a great style he has.