Help for a newbie!

[Richard Groff]

Hello! Sorry to make my first post such a stupid one, however I JUST began playing bongos (I'm a guitar player by trade...) and think I may have split my hembra head (skin). I'm not sure because it isn't broken through but there is a lighter colored ring around a 1/3rd of the drum edge. I started noticing the drum was ringing MUCH more than the macho. I thought I tuned it correctly (matching the notes from the Gajate-Garcia open tone exercise), but maybe I:

1) didn't stretch the head slowly enough;
2) tuned a dry head (I can't tell yet)
3) am an idiot because the hembra is supposed to ring like crazy (although Richie's doesn't :;): )
4) something else is going on

Could someone please take pity and explain what may be happening. For the record it is a new Pearl Premiro Pro.

One thing for sure...I should have let the guy at Sam Ash (NYC) tune the thing so I could at least get started. I noticed the rods were at way different spots on the nuts, which is why I bothered in the first place, iow, it was tuned up crooked.

Thanks very much in advance!



Edited By Richard Groff on 1109634882

[Raymond]

I don't know but for me tuning in others sense of tuning, it does not work for everybody. Various things come into play, one of them is the weight of your hand and another is the "pressure" your hand puts into the skin. Therefore, Richie's tuning might not work for you.

If I were you I tune by ear and by checking the sound while you play. (Hit the hembra, hit the macho, do the martillo.. Tune as you want to sound like...Remember now is you and your sound).

If the hembra rings a lot it might be that is tuned too high...Apparently, you did not break it...One thing, Pearl Primero's heads are sometimes not the best heads...some are too thin and sometimes it causes ring.

Recommendation....go all the way down in tuning and start tuning it up slowly until you get close where you want...

Tell us what happens!

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1109648597

[Richard Groff]

Thanks for the help Raymond!

I was more thinking I split the drum or that the head isn't that great or that it may have been too dry. You mentioned that I may have tuned it way too high which may be causing the excessive ringing, but that I probably didn't begin splitting the drum because it IS still ringing. (If I understand correctly) What I did do is contact Issac over at JCR and they are going to sort out some mule skins for me.

Also, thanks for the advise regarding copping Richie's tuning. I know that its a personal thing but as a white guy from NJ who has a new found passion for latin music, but not as much experience listening to it as much as say Black Sabbath, I am just trying to get an idea of what "good" sound is. I know from playing guitar that the best thing an absolute beginner can do is try to sound like thier favorite guitar player. You learn how to produce sound that way and pick up the fundimentals of phrasing, etc. Besides, no absolute beginner CAN sound like a master. I think as long as you don't get fixated on it and are conscience of creating your own sound after the earliest stages, it is a good way to get off the starting blocks without sounding insipid. The only real danger is that once you move into "intermediate" levels, you really have to pick up a lot more influences lest you end up being a kind of clone (like Stevie Ray Vaughn's near perfect copy of Albert King...).

Thanks again...now I better go practice!

[Raymond]

The bongo is an instrument with a lot of dimensions...Yes, there is a basic sound to it, however, the tuning defers in some genres....Also, they tend not too sound so generic like congas do....The heads tend to come to play....

For example, in the salsa/mambo genre, you have different tunings in the macho...The high tuning of the macho is preferred now although some people have gone retro in their tuning...Neverthelss, salsa players change their "factory" heads to get good heads that will give them flexibility in their sound and tuning...(See below for more). ..Another example, for non tropical or salsa genres or the "50s beat type recordings of bongos (just like Jeopardy's song) the sound is more generic with a traditional low tuning.

Check some of the posts we have here about dealing with natural heads...The break in needed for some, specially those natural heads, that are "treated or cleared" for look or view purposes, made by the major manufacturers like LP. Those types of heads when you buy them they are clear or see through You know they have "broken in" when they start turning white. You have to do some playing and tuning and detuning before they start turning white). Then, you have the "untreated" heads that tend to not need much break in. (Again, the white or color in the head will tell you). Beware that natural heads sometimes is like what Forrest Gump says..."is like a box of chocolate..you never know what you are going to get...). My best advise is to get thin heads in the macho, to get a crisp sound, that normally will not require too much tuning in case you do not like high tuning in the macho, and thick heads in the hembra to get a good bassy sound.

Synthetic heads, no need for break in and is a generic sound that once you are familiarized..."you know what you are going to get..."

Beware that some of the second tier or intermediate/beginner lines of all major companies come with heads that are not good and are unplayable for professional purposes....Pearl Primero, although I endorse Pearl, have that problem...Nevertheless, they are great sounding bongos...

Browse the subjects here and that will give you an idea about dealing with bongos....

Regarding sounds to evaluate to what you will be looking for to determine your sound, the best is to listen to records or see live performances....(Sorry, but most bongo recording is done in salsa/tropical genre but there is some good records for the bongo sound specially in the R&B genre, and specially more, in the disco/dancing era. Not that much in rock).

Keep us posted on this "discovery" period of yours....

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1109698494

[Richard Groff]

Once again Raymond, you're right on. My drummer came over and the first thing he said was "you're going to change those heads right?" :laugh:

Our band uses Pearl, so I got the Pearl Primero Pro because it has "Elite" hardware on it. As I mentioned, I am going this week to JCR to have the mule heads put on. I tend to be a little bit of a traditionalist and figure its a very good place to start (no that doesn't mean I'm going to tack on some skin and put my drum in the sun!). I live in Manhattan near the George Washington Bridge (near the Bronx) and am taking salsa lessons with my fiancee, so I plan on eyeballing a few of the hot players around the city.

If you could (or anyone) recommend 3 or 4 cds that you'd consider essential, it would be greatly appreciated. I began my education here by reading every thread on the board(hence the mule skins from Issac). Many new & old school players are mentioned, but not the recordings themselves. It is exciting to stumble into a whole new world, but can be a little frustrating without proper guidence.

BTW, I have to compliment the members of this forum. I participate in a few musician forums on the web and feel this one has really great information. Its humbling and exciting to have great players around to ask questions of.

[Raymond]

Richard,

No problem in using Pearl. I endorse Pearl...Check this out.

http://www.pearldrum.com/ppnews.asp

The guy with the blue shirt leaning on the Pearl MQ timbales is me....

If you go JCR talk to Cali..he is great all sorts of anecdotes..

You want some recommendation on salsa records with bongos...

Victor Mannuelle - Victor Manuelle - Marc Quinones on bongos
Willie Colon - Color Americano - Ray Colon on bongos
Victor Manuelle - Ironias - Robert Vilera on bongos
Tito Rojas - Tito Rojas - Albert Machuca on bongos
Frankie Ruiz - Mi Libertad - Celso Clemente on bongos
Jerry Rivera - Cuenta Conmigo - Roberto Rohena on bongos

These are some of my favorite, and a good mix of tunings here, to demonstrate the tuning in salsa...(Some are 90s records but big hits easy to find...For old stuff..get anything from Tito Puente or even from Roberto Rohena & Apollo Sound...Roberto is a bongo player and band leader).

By the way, I am in the timbales in the photo but I am mainly a bongo player...(Using now the Pearl Elite Richie Flores Signature Model but with Remo Fyberskins)..

Again, keep us posted...

Saludos!

[Richard Groff]

Thanks very much! Congratulations on your endorsement. I had a client who had a Pearl endorsement and they're good people over there (and make great drums as well). Time to get in some hard core listening!

[zaragemca]

I do agree with Raymond in his post,but I would like to point out that, what could be the difference in the outcomes of the recording is related to what type of mics., is used in the recording and how it is place in relation to the instruments,(this was the real reason in the low registry of recording with the African-American groups of the 50's),since they didn't have the knowledge of the sound engineers doing it for the latinos market,also for a producer the outcome of the recording would depends in the configuration of the parametric equalizer,and the software which is used for the processing of the track,Cubase,CakeWalk,Pro-Tools,GigaStudio,etc.,which is the reason that sometimes it is hard to reproduce the Mastering of some recording.In recording beside the quality of instruments and musicians,there are the skills and equipments,(cookies),available to the sound-engineer. Your brother Dr.Zaragemca.



Edited By zaragemca on 1110216260