Some people believe that some other live in caves..

[El Greco]

It has been five days since I have received the Gon Bops Bongos Walnut Wood With 5 Lugs that I won on ebay from Omelengo(Mr Dario Rosendo). They are indeed … and it would be a great pleasure for me to add them to my collection.



However when I received and opened the parcel, the very next moment I noticed that there was something strange..After taking a closer look I found out that they were cracked and restored on the Hembra. Instantly I recalled the communication I had with MR.Robert Fletcher regarding the exact same bongos. At that time Mr. Fletcher had explained to me that these bongos had a flaw and he sent me relevant photos as well. I frankly appreciated his sincere reply although I decided not to buy them. I just copy-paste the page of my email so there you can see the reply of Mr.Robert Flecher and his description (12 of May 2007).It was from the ebay item Number : 260115204333

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Flag this messageRe: Question about shipping for item #260115204333 - VINTAGE 70'S GON BOPS WALNUT LARGE BONGOS RESTORED MNTSaturday, May 12, 2007 8:22 AM
From: "Robert Felcher" <lopmus@cox.net>View contact details To: "kirikipaki staki" <djombopercussion@yahoo.com>Message contains attachmentsbongo2.JPG (55KB), bongo3.JPG (72KB), bongo4JPG (79KB), bongo5.JPG (78KB), bongo6.JPG (79KB), bongo7.JPG (88KB)Hello are some photos I just took of the inside of the Hembra where I put
epoxy, and the outside where you can see the crack does not come through.
Also both sides of each drum on the outside bottom.

Robert



Now I’ve got the above mentioned bongos by another seller(Mr. Dario Rosendo). I chose them based on the photos and their description at e-bay. According to these photos and descriptions the bongos were supposed to be in perfect condition(PRISTINE CONDITION...As he said..?). The seller never pointed out that there were flaws. Please check the description and photos as follows:( ebay Item Number : 170241048964 )



As soon as I saw the flaws I contacted the seller in order to inform him that I didn’t want the faulty bongos. He accepted to grant me with a refund but only as far as the Bongos value is concerned. He denied compensating me for the shipping cost (USA-Greece & Greece-USA). If the seller has presented a faulty product to be in perfect condition it’s not the buyer’s responsibility to carry the shipping cost.



I contacted him in order to find a solution regarding the shipping cost. He then started to accuse me of ruining the bongos. After that he put the blame on the post office.



If this Omelengo(Dario Rosendo) is well known for his knowledge and he didn’t see the flaw why is he appreciated as a grand member and why should we trust his opinion since he wasn’t able to distinguish the flaw. On the other hand if he had seen this flaw why didn’t he mention it?



All the e-mails addressed to him were really polite. However this wasn’t the case for his attitude. He was very rude and especially in his last messages when we were trying to find a solution to a problem for which he was responsible.



It is common knowledge that in order to have e-bay’s support you have to pay by paypal. It is also well-known that many people on e-bay don’t accept paypal, only money order. This happens because they don’t want to be exposed in case a problem like this occurs.



It is more than obvious that I won’t find a solution. The reason why I make this issue public is because I need your opinion if you have encountered a situation like this. This seller believes that in year 2008 people still live in caves and they cannot tell the difference between right and wrong. It doesn’t have to do with his reputation, as he claims, but he has to be specific and clear for the products he wants to sell. He should also know that since he displays and sells products, it is natural that he will receive several questions regarding his instruments and he is obliged to provide people with the requested information. He doesn’t do a favour as he thinks.



Since I cannot find a solution through e-bay, I think that Congaplace is a great source of information as in this site he is well known and displays anything he wants to sell.



My purpose is not to offend his reputation (this is for anyone who would like to accuse me of trying to offend the seller.Also as I spoke with Dario many times and he told me that he will put his "friends" to speak with bad comments about me...Wow..? ). I just believe that I’m not obliged to pay for something that I’m not responsible for. He has to understand that money is not something we have in excess and no one wants to just throw them.



I would appreciate your comments.. If you have experienced a similar problem your advise would be mostly welcome. But in general my opinion is that you shouldn’t trust someone who doesn’t use paypal or because of his so-called reputation.

[El Greco]

Here is the photo that show exactly where was the restored crack from Mr. Robert Flecher (12 of May 2007)

Also I add again his proper-real description :

Re: Question about shipping for item #260115204333 - VINTAGE 70'S GON BOPS WALNUT LARGE BONGOS RESTORED MNTSaturday, May 12, 2007 8:22 AM
From: "Robert Felcher" <lopmus@cox.netm>View contact details To: "kirikipaki staki" <djombopercussion@yahoo.com>Message contains attachmentsbongo2.JPG (55KB), bongo3.JPG (72KB), bongo4JPG (79KB), bongo5.JPG (78KB), bongo6.JPG (79KB), bongo7.JPG (88KB)Hello are some photos I just took of the inside of the Hembra where I put
epoxy, and the outside where you can see the crack does not come through.
Also both sides of each drum on the outside bottom.

Robert

I just post the photo with the problem(restored crack) from the 6 photos that he sent me.

Mr Robert was very clear on his description as he show first of all that the Bongos are RESTORED!
item #260115204333 - VINTAGE 70'S GON BOPS WALNUT LARGE BONGOS RESTORED MNTSaturday, May 12, 2007 8:22 AM

Thank's to Mr Robert!



"

[El Greco]

Here you can see the photos from me when I received the Bongos from Mr.Dario without his proper description..

As you can clearly see,is the same Bongos with the same restored crack...We just not have the proper description..

By the way..Mr Dario after I received the Bongos then he told me that he was bying them from Mr Robert.

But please check again his description of the following item on ebay...: Item Number : 170241048964


GON BOPS 5 LUGS BONGOS,CIRCA 1972. PRISTINE CONDITION, ALL HARDWARE HAS BEEN RECENTLY CHROMED. SHELLS HAVE BEEN PROFESSIONALLY REFINISHED.

OVERSIZED, MACHO 7", HEMBRA 9". FOR THE ULTIMATE PERCUSSIONIST,MADE IN THE USA BY MARIANO BOBADILLA. THE COLLECTOR'S BONGOS THAT EVERY SERIOUS

PERCUSSIONIST IS LOOKING FOR. VERY RARE 5 LUGS, BEAUTIFUL WALNUT WOOD. NEW HEADS, MULE SKIN ON HEMBRA FROM JCR IN DA' BRONX. YOU DON'T FIND THESE

RARE AWESOME SOUNDING BEAUTIES ANYMORE. SONERITO, SUENA TU BONGO'

NO PAYPAL, BIDDERS WITH "O" FEEDBACK, YOUR BID WILL BE CANCELLED.




There is not any description to show that the Bongos where cracked and restored.I do not care if Mr. Dario restored or not those Bongos.If someone has to sell something,HE MUST BE CLEAR!Also if coming any "error" of his fault then I suppose that he is in charge to reclaim all the expences to the buyer.The buyer just trust the description and do not care about any so-called reputation...Mr Dario...

Everyone try to do his Best for his job or his life.To be REAL is something that make our "reputation" more HUMAN BEING!

[El Greco]

Please check my next photo that show clearly that there is one more crack the Hembra in a different place(1" next from the restored crack.From the bottoms till the holes that where the screws are to mount together).Mr Robert Flecher was clear with me and also show me photo of where it was the problem.As you can see on his description he never show any problems on the Bongos and show that the Bongos are in PRISTINE CONDITON..

Then he tried to tell me that I broke the Bongos,or maybe the Post Office,or any bla bla bla...

Mr Dario I don't know what will happen.I believe that you have lot of knowledge and everyone knows that!But in this case I don't have to be the victim.Also I would like to tell you one more time that nobody afraids you because of...how you told me 1000 of times..REPUTATION...


Be HUMAN Mi Friend!

[El Greco]

Nobody lives in caves in 2008 and nobody is a toy for someones that wants to be "the players".

Why the buyer has to pay all the expences for the shipping cost when the fault is from the seller?Fault I mean his description and also when the seller is "the player" and know very well that if you pay without paypal, then you can't reclaim ANYTHING though ebay(cause ebay help you ONLY if you pay with paypal).Nice game but If I knew my friend that the Bongos where restored I would not buy them!!!And also your responsability is to be real with your buyers!!!Maybe nobody had problem before with you but at present time you are problem for me.I pay something that you were not clear with me.

Also I post both of the photos (from Mr Robert flecher & from me) to show you CLEARLY that ARE THE SAME Bongos and also nobody from me and also Post Office are responsible for that.The parcel it was very safe and well packed.So there is no any problem with that..Just check the photos mi amigo and there you will find the truth!

[Omelenko1]

When the bongos left Miami they were in excellent condition. If you say they were repaired by the previous owner that is news to my. I never noticed any repairs and I'm not blind. What I did do to the bongos was rechrome the hardware(at a cost of $165) and put new heads on them. They left Miami in excellent shape. I insured them for the amount paid, which the buyer didn't send me money for, it was an additional $15 out of my pocket. I told the buyer to send me the bongos and that I would refund him the amount paid, however, he insisted I ship them to Greece which I never ship drums overseas. I have agreed to refund him the amount paid, however shipping charges are not my responsibility. He should claim the foreign postal service for damage caused by them. I have bought and sold many instruments. I have bought congas that have been out of round, cracked and have accepted them. When you buy congas and bongos that are over 30 yrs. old you can not expect them to be new. In this case the bongos were excellent, I never noticed the repair he is talking about, I'm not sure he is showing photos of the bongos I sent because mine didn't have that reparation. I'm an honest person and my 196 feedback on Ebay proves it, just to be fair I have offered him a full refund for what he paid on Ebay, however shipping is never paid by the seller and I repeat when the bongos left Miami they were in excellent condition. The reason I don't use Paypal is because I was a victim of ID theft and I don't want to disclose personal info. Mr Greco you have an option to accept a full refund from your Ebay charges and I will accept back my bongos, I want to make sure they were the bongos I shipped and not another pair.

Dario

[Derbeno]

Interesting stuff, but not sure how this dispute can be solved on this forum.

[tjaderized]

In any case, if the goods delivered do not exactly fit the description, the seller should take them back. I would be cool about it if I were the seller and refund the shipping costs as well.

That said, this type of Bongo is very rare! I would have considered keeping them with the damage and asked for a partial refund.

[Mr. Conga]

Very interesting heading on the post.

El Greco,
Another bad experience fom ebay....I know you are truely a honest percussionist, that serves the percussion community with high integrity, you try to give nothing, but the best, and you understandably feel you deserve the same back.


Were the bongos shiped to Greece?
I have find overseas shipping is very costly, we should take that into consideration, reviewing the facts.

[Thebreeze]

I have known Robert Felcher for quite some time and in my previous dealings with me he always noted down any and all problems or repairs that had been done on his drums. So I definitely believe El Greco when he states that he turned down the drums from Robert because he wanted bongos without flaws or repairs, and I believe that the Bongos in the pictures are the same ones he received. No one is going to go to all this trouble for the sake of doing it. There is a high standard of principle which is at stake here, as well as reputations. I would like to be very neutral in what I am saying, and I think that the right thing to do would be to do what Dario is suggesting, Return the sellers money, but maybe go beyond that and as a goodwill gesture pay 50% of the shipping? The sooner this gets resolved the faster we can get back to talking about drums and that kind of thing. There have been too many of these things in the past and we don't need any more.
El Greco and Dario....I am sorry and I really apologize to both of you if I have offended any of you, I am just trying to offer some friendly advice. I know and respect both of you very highly.

Will.

[Mr. Conga]

I have found out personally, that most of the times that a seller on ebay, dosn't accept pay pal, or only posted a single picture, not showing to much description, we are up for something fishy.

With pay pal the buyer is protected to a certain degree, if one dosn't receive the item, or the item is not as described the buyer can open up a clai, get a refund,(if the seller dosnt send an item, and cashes the money) even open up an investigation trough the credit car company.

A good thing to do is, ask the seller for detail pictures, specially of the inside of the percussion, and multiple exterior angles... The alma, hardware, and if possible if they can take off the skin with the rim, to make sure the drum is not out of round. Most of the times when a seller has nothing to hide, and wants to sell the drum, the will include detail picture. Sometimes selleres dont disclose all information, but some do.

I think non in the percusssion community, really like their instruments damaged,craked, broken....etc.
To me is like a salvage car. The worst ebay experiences are when, the seller dosn't send anything, and they clear out their account.

Ebays policy resently change, concerning feedback.
Before if the item came broken, or the seller did not send the product. And the buyer leaves honest feedback, the seller could retaliate, with negative feedback even if th buyer payed right away.

Now buyers can leave honest feedback without being concern with retaliation, on behalf of the seller.
But when we are dealing with a positive feedback, or a hundred and more score, the buyer hesitates to leave a negative remark, and stain the sellers reputation, and trys to find a solution with the seller.
I have experience some negative transactions on ebay, and i know how it feels to be cheated.

I am trying to understand the seller, and the buyer.
Mr. Robert disclosed a previous crack, and that it was fixed, that is very honest, and good.
Some sellers are honest to prevent future issues, or disclose everything to maintain a positive powerseller statues with no negatives, and that is good.
That way no one gets hurt, and broken trust feelings won't be there.

However if a seller dicloses previous crack, and even if the item has been restored, it reduces the value of the item, and demand very drasticly.

Some sellers want top dollar at any cost. That may include spicing up the interest, adding extra Alfredo sauce to the pasta, or hidding certain details.

El Greco has a lot of people on this forum that know he is very honest(Many satisfactory transactions), i don't think he would have damage the bongo, or change it for another one.

A solution could be to for El Greco to take pictures of the bongo that show the entire bongo, compare the same pictures his friend Robert sended him, showing the bolts, and the same crack are, and he could evidently proof is the same bongo,and that he is not trying to pull a slick one. That kind of information is requested when disputing on pay pal.

If the descreption of an item was missing information such as cracks, i would feel cheated, in my trust.
I saw the auction, and the seller has a big positive score number, and the buyer El Greco is known for being a very trust worthy individual.

I respect Omelenko knowledge,and aslo respect El Grecos' high level of honesty.
I hope both individuals can come to a positive agreement.
That way no one gets hurt, and broken trust feelings won't be there.

[ABAKUA]

Interesting stuff, but not sure how this dispute can be solved on this forum.

Exactly. Please leave this of the forum and settle between private messaging. Plain and simple, the forum is not to be used for this type of disputes.
I will be locking and deleting this thread in 24hrs.

[El Greco]

Mr Dario,
please do not speak about 196% feedback cause in our case you use the Doctorumba1 in the name of your wife...For what feedback you talking about...?????I have to bid on ebay thinking your name and also every answer it was sign by Dario....and thereafter I realise that it was someone Juana Perez De Alejo.....What I can do after?Ok...No Paypal...No Secure...I already bid and win this item...But I have to send money only through Western Union(Money Order)...And only to Dario Rosendo....Is really interested e?????


I'd be grateful if you could check what I'm talking about in my last posts.
It's DEFINITELY THE SAME BONGOS!!!!The one that you bought from Mr Robert Flecher.Everyone can undestand that and only you keep that in so bajo nivel..I do not care how much money you spend to rechrome the hardwear and I don't care if you accept instruments with problems (if the instrument is 1 year old or 100 years old)....I just need from you to understand what happens cause I think you are the only who "DON'T UNDERSTAND"...La Rumba Te Esta Llamando Mi Hermano!!!
I reassure you that no damage has been done neither from the Post Office nor from me.As I mentioned in my previous email to you,it would be most appreciate if you could communicate with Mr Robert Flecher to get all the necessary information about my (12 of May 2007) contact with him where he told me and I saw the photos where the Bongo it was the same with EXACTLY THE SAME RESTORED CRACK!
It is quite clear that this is the same pair of Bongos.The one you bought from Mr Robert Flecher!
Therefore it is your OBLIGATION and my UNDISPUTABLE RIGHT to claim back all the money I have paid (inclunding Western Union Comision,Price of the Bongos,Shipping Cost from USA-Greece) and the money that I will pay for the Shipping Cost to send you back the Bongos from Greece-USA.


It is your fault and to continue with your lies you don't gain anything.Here in this forum you can find many Respectfull Percussionist que son Luchadores por la Musica and with lot of knowlegde like yours.But most of all they are simple clear and real between us.This is a community that makes happy any kind of Percussionist from all around the world.Here me and all of us we can find Our-Place and share with other Percussionist our experiences.Try to keep that with its own quality Mi Amigo!
I don't know what you gonna do about our issue.But be sure that with all of that it is not so nice situation for you and you have to give a more clear and honnest answer-solution..

Think about it and I will be happy to be your friend as first of all I try to have only nice contact with everyone in this forum because I feel this place as the "Soul-Paradise of any Percussionist".Here is the Best Source of Information for every Percussionist and I suppose that the half of ourselves live 100% the Congaplace World.It will be better to keep everyone of us ,the Best among Communication-Friendship with its own Quality,Honnest and clearness.Hope you understand..

Lot of thank's to all of you on this issue and 1000 of sorries to ABAKUA.I always check your posts and I really respect your opinions for any kind of issues of music or instruments.For this issue you are right in one point.To the other side, think about it a bit more why I did that? I show all this issue in Congaplace as Mr Dario Rosendo is a Gran Member on this forum.Is one of the Most Appreciated for his knowlegde-Reputation.But I hope he will act according to his PROFFESSIONAL REPUTATION so that matter will end up here.


With My Kind Regards

Theo "El Greco" Godas

[Thebreeze]

Derbeno and ABAKUA......If you think about it, this forum is exactly the right place to at least let it be known that someone has an issue or concern with another member. Like I said earlier, there are "high standards of principles and Reputations" at stake here. I for one am glad to read about someones concerns with another member because it helps me to decide how I want to interface with these members in the future. Of course ABAKUA is correct to remove the post after a short period but at least the members had a chance to read it. I think that this will keep us all as honest as we can possibly be. I for one would not want to have an issue brought up to this forum against me, so knowing what I know, I will always do my best to steer clear of possible problems with my fellow forum members. Ever since I joined the forum I have learned so much that I can't even begin to tell you, but you all know this because you have all learned so much as well, and I have respected everyone, and have received respect from everyone as well. It's a great place to share thoughts and info.

Again, I have the highest respect for Both parties involved and I am sure that between them now, this should all get resolved. Life is too short to have these kind of Head-aches bother us, and I have always done my best never to burn bridges because you just might have to cross that same bridge again one day.

I hope everyone has a great Saturday.

Will.

[Omelenko1]

I have never sold a defective instrument. Every person I have dealt with has been more than satisfied with what I had to offer, read my 196 positive feedbacks.
When I got those bongos I was never told they had a reparation. I never noticed anything, if it had one, it most have been very minor. I don't nickpick, if I want a rare and exotict instrument I'm willing to accept what I get,however that's me. Once again, the bongos were in EXCELLENT CONDITION when I shipped them, I don't keep or sale half-ass drums. I stated that I only ship in the US, I never ship overseas. El senor Greco, who I thought was Cuban, he tries to pass for Cuban with his "que vola' acereko, consorte, monina, que no se pare la timba", insisted that I ship overseas to Greece. As it is, I payed an additional $15 dollars to get the bongos to him, he never mentioned reimbursing me. Everytime I show something on Ebay he writes me questioning everything, wanting everything but never doing anything about it. This time I gave in and this is what happens. I will reimburse him for what he paid on Ebay, that is more than fair. Every transaction on Ebay, if there is a return, the seller bears the shipping cost, that's the way business is conducted. For the 100th time, the bongos were EXCELLENTwhen I shipped them, I WILL NEVER SELL DEFECTIVE INSTRUMENTS, is not the way I do business, reflect on my almost 200 feedbacks.
You'll get back your complete EBAY expenditure, that is more than just, you still owe me $15 for shipping, which you never intended to pay. The ones that know me in this forum know that I have always gone the extra mile to be of service, give information about places that make hardware, give addresses and phone numbers of craftsmen in Colombia, P Rico and Venezuela, I think my contribution has been more than positive. I have had a real negative experience with this person and I learned my lesson, I will never ship internationaly. This NOVELA or SOAP OPERA serves no purpose here. I regreat having sold those bongos, a 10 lug 1972 Gon Bops with new mule skin on the hembra and new calf on the macho and in EXCELLENT condition, would love to get them back. The ball is in his court, I will never cheat or double cross no one.

Dario

Daio