cylindrical versus conical

[Thebreeze]

I just wanted to ask if any of you out there have any comments on Bongos that have cylindrical shapes as opposed to Bongos that have conical shapes. in a recent thread, daniel_nc83 just aquired a nice set of Moperc Bongos and Moperc's description of the Bongos mentions that they are cylindrical and that this results in a remarkable projection. It seems to me that this could just be a sales gimmick but I don't know this for sure. Here is their info from their website....
" A must for percussion purists. Maple contruction and a cylindrical (versus conical) design endow these bongos with a truly remarkable projection. Another Moperc's innovation is to imbed the junction block in the shell, resulting in an extremely solid, efficient assembly and eliminating any possibility of splitting at the bolt-holes.".
I recently aquired an older set of the large JCR Bongos and the Hembra is a 9" very conically shaped shell. I have not finished mounting a head on it yet but now I am curious if there really is a difference in projection with cylindrical vs conical. Anyone have some light to shed on this?
p.s.....I am in no way downplaying Moperc's quality. Those Bongos that daniel just got are beautiful to say the least.

[yambu321]

Some of the finest artisans out there, have told me that, from the their experiences, it is better to have even a slight conical shape than purely cylindrical. For an authentic tone and elevated projection. 99% of the atisans in the last 50 or so years, may not all be wrong.

Charlie "El Coqui" Verdejo

[Thebreeze]

Thanks Charlie. It makes sense to me since most bongos I have ever seen have at least a slight conical shape to them.

[daniel_nc83]

I thought I might chime in. Not that I am an expert, having only heard a few models. Anywho, the projection is not louder ( though they do sing) but has different tonal characteristics. To my ear the tone has more of a "ring", like a bell chime. Most notably on the Macho. With the conical shape, atleast in my opinion, the tone is more direct and concentrated. I can not speak for the high end custom models like JCR, El Piernas and the like. If any members in the NC area have a pair..we should jam sometime.

[umannyt]

That conical shape for bongos could actually result in greater sound projection makes a lot of sense to me.

The best analogy I can think of is the simple gardening hose. Other things being equal (such as how wide the faucet valve is opened), compare the pressure of the water coming out of the hose WITHOUT a nozzle (analogous to cylindrical) to the pressure of the water coming out of the hose WITH a nozzle (analogous to conical), especially if the nozzle is narrowly-opened.

Actually, we probably don't have to get too far outside of percussion for purposes of analogy: Consider the conga. Why is it that towards the bottom (sound hole) that practically all of them are conical rather than cylindrical in shape?

My 2 cents,

[RitmoBoricua]

I thought I might chime in. Not that I am an expert, having only heard a few models. Anywho, the projection is not louder ( though they do sing) but has different tonal characteristics. To my ear the tone has more of a "ring", like a bell chime. Most notably on the Macho. With the conical shape, atleast in my opinion, the tone is more direct and concentrated. I can not speak for the high end custom models like JCR, El Piernas and the like. If any members in the NC area have a pair..we should jam sometime.

The type of wood is another factor that will make a tonal difference too. For example a set like yours made out of maple due to the maple tonal characteristics is going to sound different than exactly the same bongo but made out of red oak. Also have to take into account the size of the heads and material of the heads(synthetic, steer, mule, calf, water buffalo etc). I think one way to do it if to have (2) bongos made out of exactly the same type of wood, same heads size and material except for one being conical and the other cylindrical then you can truly compare.

[Thebreeze]

The type of wood is another factor that will make a tonal difference too. For example a set like yours made out of maple due to the maple tonal characteristics is going to sound different than exactly the same bongo but made out of red oak. Also have to take into account the size of the heads and material of the heads(synthetic, steer, mule, calf, water buffalo etc). I think one way to do it if to have (2) bongos made out of exactly the same type of wood, same heads size and material except for one being conical and the other cylindrical then you can truly compare .

By Ritmo Boricua

Actually, we probably don't have to get too far outside of percussion for purposes of analogy: Consider the conga. Why is it that towards the bottom (sound hole) that practically all of them are conical rather than cylindrical in shape?

By umannyt

I see some good points by Ritmo, and Manny. The material used to make the instrument, and head sizes would definitely make a difference, and also the larger instruments like congas would probably be more affected by conical vs cylindrical shapes than shorter instruments like bongos or timbales.

[Coco]

I would think that after the skins, the most important factor in determining the sound would likely be the shape of the bearing edge.

[Tonio]

To share some of my thoughts about Moperc's cylindrical shape, I think the it projects in an outward 360 degrees, vs the conical, whch seems to project down, and out.
The 1st thing I noticed with my Moperc Salsa clubs (Ash), is that vs say LP Gen II, is that the Mopercs can be heard in the room more than LP's heard concentrated near the drum.
The 1st gig I played the Mopercs, it took a while to hear it and thought "where's the projetion?" But once I found the sound in the room, it was awesome.
Michel said the difference beyween the ash models and maple models is very subtle. His description and design was the sole purpose of making them project with the added true "old school" sound/tonality. Then he went as far as saying, the remaining parts of the whether ash or maple design are esthetics only.
As far as conical, IMO it does give a certain tone which I will call popping tone. It may lend to a more modern "salsa" vibe on the macho open tones e.g. Juniors.
The thing w/ bongos is that its a bastardized abaqua drum. And I remember that the drum (sorry I forgot the real name) is cylindrical.
So in essence I think the conical shape was changed with time for a more tonal evolution. I'm not a total history buff, so please correct me if I am wrong.

All in all, conical and cylindrical shapes hold their own character in design and tonality. Me likes both and lends to a rounded approach for any taste of music.

T

[Tonio]

I will agree with your statement COCO, with bongos the bearing edge does make a big difference, all the bongos I have ever played had a sharp bearing edge. Mopercs are the most rounded edge, and Juniors comes close, all the rest are angled cuts on the inside. I have not played the ones Omelenko and a few others have posted , however.e.g El Piernas, CP.

T

I would think that after the skins, the most important factor in determining the sound would likely be the shape of the bearing edge.

[yambu321]

Actually Guys,

An experienced Bongocero would know that each bongo set-up will have a minor, to a major difference in flavor when compared to another. That is why bongocero's typically own 3 to 6 Sets or more. But with that said, he or she would more importantly know, right off the Bat, if that bongo set is a keeper for them. We each have our own preferences and demands. So wheather it's Conical, or Cylindrical in shape, Maple, mahogany or Oak, in wood, with Kip, Mule, or Synthetic, skin; with 8, 9, or 10 lugs. with a High or low profile. What really matters is, if it's what we really want, and or need, to get the job done, just the way we would truly like it, it's a Winner and a keeper amongst the others.

Charlie

[caballoballo]

I will start saying that Lp first generation were Cylindrical. A cylindrical shape has a wider range of tonalities just like in a speaker desing the diameter of the port determines the frequency which would change into sound. The day I selected my Moperc I did a comparison, there was a Edison Pasterizo Colombian Bongó solid built conical shape. I tunned them the same amount, the Moperc sounded better from start.

Yes, wood type ,skins ,ect ,has to do with the output sound and also the player technic & skill plays a very important role on volume,tone,ect,ect. IMHO

[yambu321]

Caballoballo,
first I would like to say hello. It's been a while. yes, I myself own a pair of 1984 LP Gen 2's, and they sound awesome with Mule on the Macho and Cow on the Hembra. They are of Conical design not cylindrical. But hey Brother, you have an awesome set of bongos! Moperc Bongos, Are Masterpieces! and you are most fortunate to have added that other flavor to your collection!

[bongosnotbombs]

As far as I know isn't it mainly Moperc with the cylindrical?
I think maybe Sol's were cylindrical too.

My Valje and Resolutions are tapered.

I sure would love to add a set of Moperc's to these someday though.

I can't really see there being a better or worse tapered vs. cylindrical,
more like different flavors....if it sounds like as bongo, and looks like a bongo.

Reminds me of my set of Meinl's with the freeride system, they said it allowed the
shells to reverberate more, well I couldn't tell if it did or not (I don't think it did),
but the feature was really well designed and very sturdy and I think made the shells stronger
by not putting stress on them. It wasn't traditional, only Meinl does it that way and those drums sounded great.
The freeride system did make them too wide for me though.

So the freeride was hyped as sounding better, which it didn't really, sounded the same, it was a good system.
Cylindrical may be hyped as being louder or sounding better, maybe true maybe not, but just one look
at those Moperc bongos tells me they are the business, cylindrical or tapered.

So cylindrical may be a break from tradition, but sometimes thats a good thing, tradition is also good,
just like choice.