Some people believe that some other live in caves..

[windhorse]

[ABAKUA]

This NOVELA or SOAP OPERA serves no purpose here.

Exactly.

Issues are to be sorted in private off the main forum and in private message, email or phone call etc
Posting this type of thread here before an agreement is made or before proper negotiation has been made can be taken as a form of defamation.
Our forum is not a tool for this nor will I let it be.

You'll get back your complete EBAY expenditure, that is more than just, you still owe me $15 for shipping, which you never intended to pay.

Perfectly clear. You buy something, not happy with it? Send it back to the supplier. Plain and simple. Buyer covers the shipping costs/postage & handling (like you would with any business selling products) and receive refund for product you paid for. This is standard business protocol.

I have had a real negative experience with this person and I learned my lesson, I will never ship internationaly.

I hope this is not the case. I understand both parties have had a bad experience, but I sincerely hope you reconsider international shipping.
I still would love to get those Junior's off you one day!

Lot of thank's to all of you on this issue and 1000 of sorries to ABAKUA.I always check your posts and I really respect your opinions for any kind of issues of music or instruments.For this issue you are right in one point.

Brother, you have no need to apologise to me, you have done nothing wrong and I have no bad feelings here.
I just want to keep this forum clean and feel this type of thread does not belong here.

If you had negotiated, and failed to come to a common agreement, and the other party continued to be unco-operative etc and refusing to negotiate, then perhaps this thread would have some place on here.
Dario has made a very reasonable and clear public offer to refund your purchase expense. Seems only fair you pay for the shipping costs.

I will give this thread another 24hrs before it is locked giving any of the parties a chance to make a public comment.

[El Greco]

Thank's to ABAKUA for his comments.I realised the same with you.This issue do not have any answer..

But Mr Dario knows very well what I'm talking about.The Bongos are the same Bongos that he bought from Mr Robert Flecher(and I'm sure that many others on this forum knows that!)...I was the only that didn't new and my only bid on those Bongos prove that..NOBODY WANTS TO RECEIVE A RESTORED INSTRUMENT!
ABAKUA Said:
Omelenko1 wrote:
"You'll get back your complete EBAY expenditure, that is more than just, you still owe me $15 for shipping, which you never intended to pay."
And ABAKUA answer that:
"Perfectly clear. You buy something, not happy with it? Send it back to the supplier. Plain and simple. Buyer covers the shipping costs/postage & handling (like you would with any business selling products) and receive refund for product you paid for. This is standard business protocol."

As about the obligations of the seller I know them very very well.But his explaination is not for our case.Mr Dario never explained that the Bongos where with problem.I spoke with him to contact with Mr Flecher as about my last contact with him in 12 of May 2007.There he can see that we speaking about the same Bongos.Also is the same Bongos that he bought from him.Since I received the Bongos from Mr Dario I realised that are the EXACTLY THE SAME BONGOS from Mr Robert Flecher.Mr Dario NEVER EXPLAINED on his description that the Bongos were restored(I'm sure that he didn't made any reparations as I'm speaking for EXACTLY the SAME REPARATIONS that Mr Flecher showed me on our last contact in 12 of May 2007 for the same Bongos.Photos speaking!).
Therefore regarding the answer of ABAKUA and also THE INTERNATIONAL COMMERCIAL RULES is OBLIGATION of Mr Dario and my UNDISPUTABLE RIGHT to claim back all the money I have paid (inclunding Western Union Comision,Price of the Bongos,Shipping Cost from USA-Greece) and the money that I will pay for the Shipping Cost to send you back the Bongos from Greece-USA.
I already post all the needed info above from my first post to my last post.I think is not difficult to understand what really happens.
As about the priorities-responsabilities of the seller it is common-honnest-logical-and easy to understand that regarding his missing description , HE MUST REFUND ALL THE EXPENCIES TO THE BUYER.The buyer never said that he accept a restored instrument.If I knew that the Bongos were restored I WOULD NOT BUY THEM.
I have VERGARA Bongos from 60' (gift from my Teacher CHANGUITO)that is in excelent condition(that means WITHOUT ANY CRACK or whatever.
I have the REQUENA without any problem.Any many other instruments in the same cintition.But all of them I bought them cause I knew their state.
Always I ask Mr Dario for his instruments and I do the same to anyone that expose his instruments through Congaplace,ebay or any other source through Internet.
If Mr Dario do not ship outside of USA then why he did that with me?To the other side why I was the only bidder????A nice question e ???
As about my...a lo Cubano Espanol...Dario Mi Hermano yo aprendi Espanol en la tierra tuya!Y me da mucha alegria que aprenti alla!Entonces diculpame por eso pero yo aprenti asi y soy muy feliz que aprenti el Castellano VERDADERO!I've been living many years in Cuba studied with Changuito,Rumberos De Cuba,Los Monequitos,e.t.c. and also I gratuated from ISA-Instituto Superior De Arte-La Havana (Percussion Department).Also I'm married with Cuban and I'm happy for that.Mi segunda casa esta pa'lla Mi Hermano(Havana-Miramar).So my Spanish have Cuban infuences as I communicate and live with Cubans.Sorry cause I'm not Cuban but I think this is not the issue if you communicate with people from all around the world!
Mr Dario as you understand the issue is not to accept that you are wrong with all of that but to understand that to be honnest is something more than a pair of Gon Bops Bongos..I do not cheat you and also I would like to have better contact than what we have right now.
I would like to tell you one more time to finish all this bad issue for both of us like it is more honnest to be.You must refund me all my expencies and also my expencies for the shipping cost.Please do not answer now..Just communicate with Mr Flecher FIRST and tell him to "forward" to you his last answer to me regarding the same BONGOS THAT YOU SOLD ME ON EBAY(also to send you the 6 attached photos that he sent me at the same email.There the first photo have THE SAME RESTORED-CRACK LIKE THE BONGOS THAT YOU BOUGHT FROM MR FLECHER AND AFTER I WIN ON EBAY FROM YOU!.As everyone can clearly see I copy-paste from my email the answer of Mr Robert Flecher that is very clear and honnest his description that the Bongos were restored.And I speak for the same Bongos that Me Dario bought from Mr Flecher and after me from Mr dario.I post the photo fo the email of Mr Flecher(from our contact 12 of May 2007)and also 2 photos from me that shows EXACTLY THE SAME RESTORED CRACK and one more 1" next to the other.I don't know what else is needed to say.I suppose I'm clear and specific of what I'm saying.

LET ME ADD ONE MORE TIME THE LAST CONTACT WITH Mr FLECHER(12 of May 2007).I copy-paste from my email:

Re: Question about shipping for item #260115204333 - VINTAGE 70'S GON BOPS WALNUT LARGE BONGOS RESTORED MNTSaturday, May 12, 2007 8:22 AM
From: "Robert Felcher" <lopmus@cox.netm>View contact details To: "kirikipaki staki" <djombopercussion@yahoo.com>Message contains attachmentsbongo2.JPG (55KB), bongo3.JPG (72KB), bongo4JPG (79KB), bongo5.JPG (78KB), bongo6.JPG (79KB), bongo7.JPG (88KB)Hello are some photos I just took of the inside of the Hembra where I put
epoxy, and the outside where you can see the crack does not come through.
Also both sides of each drum on the outside bottom.

Robert


NOW PLEASE LET ME REMIND YOU THE EMAIL
THAT YOU SEND ME Mr DARIO.CLEARLY CONFIRM THAT IS THE BONGOS THAT YOU BOUGHT FROM Mr ROBERT FLECHER.(Also I copy-paste from my email.From 12 of August 2008)

ReplyReply All Move...
Flag this messageRE: You've received an answer to your question about item BONGOS / CONGAS. GON BOPS PROFESSIONAL 5 LUG BONGOSTuesday, August 12, 2008 3:02 PM
From: "Juana Perez De Alejo" <doctorumba1@hotmail.com>Add sender to Contacts To: djombopercussion@yahoo.comEse bongo' nunca fue reparado, no se lo que estas diciendo. Yo se lo compre' a Robert Feltcher en San Diego, mande' a chrome plate el hardware y le puse varnish. Nunca fue reparado y cuando salio de Miami estaba en excelentes condiciones. Cuando me llegue el bongo' yo te mando un money order por el precio de Ebay, el shipping lo pagas tu. Asi siempre son las transacciones en Ebay. Otra cosa, yo pague' $63 dolares de shipping y tu mandastes $48, quiere decir que me debes $15. $499 - $15= $484. Ese dinero te lo mando cuando reciba el bongo', el shipping es cosa tuya. Yo sabia que tratar contigo iba a ser dificil, siempre mandandome emails sobre mis instrumentos, que por cierto, son los mejores en Ebay, mira mi "feedback" 195 positivo. Espero el bongo' y recibiras tu dinero, $484.

Dario



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:08:21 -0700
From: member@ebay.com
To: doctorumba1@hotmail.com
Subject: You've received an answer to your question about item BONGOS / CONGAS. GON BOPS PROFESSIONAL 5 LUG BONGOS


NOBODY WANTS TO CHEAT OR DOUBLE CROSS NO ONE Mr DARIO.WE ARE ONE COMMUNITY HERE AND YOU DON'T PLAY BUENA RUMBA WITH ME.THAT'S ALL..

Also I never said that I would not pay back to you the $15 for the extra shipping charges.Mr Dario wants from me to reclaim this $15 with one Greek Mule Skin for Bongos but I explained him that the skin cost $30-$40(depens on the size 12",13"14") and also is the shipping cost that I'm not willing to claim the $15 that own him for near to $50 (skin+shipping cost).I told him that I send very often skins to USA so when I will find a chance to send any skins near to Miami I will send him a skin.

Please try to think about all the above and reclaim all the expencies soon to me.Everyone here understund WHAT REALLY HAPPENS.It doesn't have to do with rechrome the hardwears,or to ship outside of USA or not,or reputations,or if I'm Cuban or not,or whatever...I think to be honnest between us is something more than any Gon Bops Bongos or so-called reputation.We are Human Beings and not Super Stars..

Think about it and I suppose that this post will close soon.So try to answer me through PM.
It's not for the extra money to reclaim to me for the Post Office(bacause of your lies and errors)but because we need to be clear.I think someone have to tell youthat.You were very rude to me to your previous email and also I'm not afraid to show the truth when I'm right.
To build our reputation is just a dream in our minds...This is not "THE THING" Mi Hermano!


El Greco

[Omelenko1]

Simple and to the point, I will refund you the full price you paid on Ebay, that's the way business is done and is more than fair, when you send me my bongos. I never ship outside the US, you insisted,insisted, insisted and I did. Once again when the bongos left Miami, they were in EXCELLENT CONDITION. I never knew about your conversations with the previous owner, that was before my time. I was never told by the previous ownwer about a reparation to the bongos, if it had one, I never noticed it, that tells you how insignificant it most have been and I've been dealing in percussion instruments for more than 30 yrs. I know when I buy a 36 year old instrument I can not expect it new. This one was excellent in my standards. When I shipped it it was also EXCELLENT plus it was completely rechromed. Bien simple acereko, te mando la astilla cuando me devuelvas el instrumento. Tumba la NOVELA que se vuelve monotona ! Ya tu sabes lo que tienes que hacer, monina. Manda y te mando. Ni una mas, mulato.

Dario

[congaDR]

Im all for open communication and all.

... but there has to be a limit to airing dirty laundry... not imposed by the admin, but by the other members.

I think El Greco should have worked it out with Dario over the phone, worked it out through the ebay resolution forum, or just eaten the mistake of buying a drum sight unseen.

A more experienced person would have talked to the seller and requested more information and pictures till all possible concerns were addressed. The law of this land... buyer beware, and get pictures. This flaw, if it existed, would easily show on a picture. right? If so, why didn't you ask for them?

By the way, was this the same trusted friend who listed those water damaged Valje's on ebay without disclosing the unrepairable damage to them?? remember that one? It happens quite often.

Tony

[El Greco]

Yes i ask him for photos that he never sent me.He always said that I will send you soon..Anyway this is my only fault and I accept that.But according the reputation of Mr Dario I trusted him 100%.But this is not the only that we can do.We must trust only ourselves.

Anyway this conversation I think do not have any solution as Mr Dario play the rule "YO NO SE NADA..".

Mr Dario something in the end..
What I pay for those Bongos is:
390.20 euro(this inclunding the cost for the Bongos,shipping cost,comision of Western Union)+(the shipping cost to send you back the Bongos)-those $15 that I own you.Those $15 is because of your fault.One of the BASIC seller's priorities are to find out how much is the shipping cost and not of the buyer.YOU told me to find out alone.Ok..I communicate with USPS and I received the price and I give it to you(everything according the dimensions of the box and the weight of it with the bongos.Info that YOU gave me).So thereafter you told me that you went to the post office and they charged you more money.IF YOU SELL SOMETHING NEXT TIME THINK ABOUT IT THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE TO FIND OUT THAT.And also to send a receipt of the Post Office to the buyer straight ahead when you send the packet so the buyer can be sure that you don't charge EXTRA money(on the shipping price) and he is sure for what EXACTLY HAS TO PAY FOR THE SHIPPING COST!
I will not accept from Mr Dario to refund me only the cost of the Bongos as is Mr Dario's fault-lie-trap-error!Mr Dario has to refund me all my expencies.If not,then Mr Dario can keep the money and everything is ok!It is not the money in this issue.Mr Dario made lot of errors and thereafter he is OUT of his responsabilities.Responsabilities that the buyer IS NOT RESPONSIBLE AT ALL.If the buyer knew that the Bongos had problem in my case I did not bid on those Bongos.EASY & SIMPLE...So I will not accept anymore "Bajesas" from Mr Dario.The issue speaking ALONE!EVERYONE UNDERSTUND WHAT HAPPENS!!!This is something more than the money for me.I trust a Well known and Gran Member of Congaplace and I never though that I will have this kind of Baja Experiencia!Professionalism is something that is FIRST of my PRIORITIES and I didn't reveived the same from a Congaplace's member like Mr Dario and his So-Called REPUTATION!!

Dario thank you for all Bro!Viva Los Valores Mi Hermano!


Rombe el Tambor..

El Greco

[Omelenko1]

Tony writes: "Was this the same trusted friend who posted Valjes". I don't know who this implies to, certainly not to me. The situation is very simple, complete Ebay refund when bongos are returned. That's the way business is conducted. The dealings with the previous ownwer is not my businness, it was before me and I didn't know anything about it, the previous owner never disclosed any repairs to me and I didn't noitced anything unusual. I was lucky I got a 36 yr. old 10 lug Gon Bops bongos in what I consider excellent condition, I accept minor flaws from used instruments, is to be expected, however, these didn't have any in my book. I'm a Certified Public Accountant and have ethical standards, however, "mama didn't raised no fool" and I've been to many rumbas. Complete Ebay refund on return of MY BONGOS, we all have similar instruments that we can take pictures of. My bongos were in EXCLLENT shape.
I have helped many of you sincerely with conga identifications like "El Chino's Luis Gutierrez, Afro Sounds and with many more issues giving addresses, phone numbers of artisans here in the States and abroad. I have always been straight forward and willing to help. Bongos back, complete Ebay refund back. I suggest if you want to keep this nonsense going, ask for a "Supreme Court ruling".

Dario

[congaDR]

Sorry Dario,

I was not referring to you. You didnt list any valjes on ebay with water damage as undamaged. I was referring to El Greco's 'trusted' friend he likes to quote. I was pointing out that this is common, even from those he 'trusts' and if one doesnt like it, dont shop on ebay. Not to say that you are not trust worthy. You dont have to take the bongo's back, if you wanted to be hard about it.

Thanks for your help in IDing the el Chino's that was cool. I was trying to defend you.

Tony