Bongo DVD

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Postby bongosnotbombs » Thu May 24, 2007 7:35 pm

JohnnyConga wrote:Your right to a degree their are many "variaciones"/variations of martillo, beside the standard ticky ticky ticky tock....."JC" Johnny Conga.....still smilin!.... :D

Oh man, I do not want to open this can of worms again!
We had a huge discussion about this on a different forum
(the bongo group)

it came down to there is just one BASIC Martillo, of course you can vary the martillo, but then this becomes a variation of the basic martillo, and not the martillo exactly.

the same is true of conga rhythms, each part has it's basic pattern, and then there are variations of it.

You would'nt teach a variation before the basic pattern typically, and when you refer to a pattern by name, typically you are referring to the basic state of that pattern and not a variation.

There can be only one basic martillo, and it remains the only named and standardized bongo rhythm. None of it's variations have names nor are they standardized, if I ask you to play martillo variation, what are you gonna play?
If I ask you to play martillo your gonna play martillo.....

(looks like I opened th can of worms again!) :D
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Postby burke » Fri May 25, 2007 4:51 pm

I have an older version of a Trevor Sallum [Mel Bay] Bongo book whick I just happened to go back to just the other day - It has a CD.

It also has so many Martillo variations that it's scary!!! Which may be why it put it aside for so long. Also lots of non-Martillo patterns (Songo, Bossa, "Jazz" etc. etc.) and a gizzillion fills (including fills based on Bata). In other words, for a guy like me enough for a couple years work.

My only complaint is the sound examples are usually only a bar long - which ain't long enough!

PS. Just back from DC. I had asked for help with a music store recomendation. Here's the answer: Chuck Levin's.

Got my new Matador bongos there for $109. That equals the best price I found on the net.

Also they had both Evans & Remo heads in stock - also at prices equal and mostly better than the net!

I opted for the evans set which were a much better deal at $52 (for the set)

...and yes they fit Matadors just fine. I was in the States long enough that I didn't pay duty and humped them back to Nova Scotia by train in my pack with clothes stuffed in them.
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Postby Diceman » Wed May 30, 2007 9:31 pm

Worth having a look at a DVD by Nan Mercader on www.ventilador-music.com. Google it up.

He even throws in some flamenco rhythms

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Postby JohnnyConga » Thu May 31, 2007 12:16 am

Hey Bongosnotbombs...WE AGREE there is one basic Martillo...as I mentioned ...ticky ticky ticky tock....and from there?...."JC" Johnny Conga.... :D
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Postby bingobongo » Thu May 31, 2007 7:37 pm

Worth having a look at a DVD by Nan Mercader on www.ventilador-music.com. Google it up.


Diceman, the website doesn't give much description of the dvd's content. What does it cover and how does it compare to David Romero's dvd?

As I mentioned at the start of this thread I'm learning to play congas by working through the Tomas Cruz volumes 1 & 2 and I've found this really easy to pick up. What approach does Nan Mercader take to teaching technique?

Thanks

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Postby Diceman » Thu May 31, 2007 9:56 pm

Bingbongo,

I havent seen David Romeros DVD (is it worth buying?) but Nan shows Martillo and variations and bomba, merengue, afro,bembe,swing, rumba, tango flamencos, tanguillos,samba and rock on the bongos, then various cowbell rhythms. He is spanish comes from a different direction although his method looks traditional. He shows each rhythm slowly, at speed with a band, then band minus one. It is 94 minutes long and I would say beginner to intermediate, but it has more different rhythms than you would expect, as bongos have now been adopted into Flamenco.
I reckon if you learn a couple of new things from a DVD it would cost the about same as a one to one lesson, and is therefore worth the bazooma.
I am reasonable bongo player and can hold my own in a band situation, and dont have any other bongo DVDs to compare it with, but I feel it was worth it.

My two skins worth

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Postby bongosnotbombs » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:56 am

JohnnyConga wrote:Hey Bongosnotbombs...WE AGREE there is one basic Martillo...as I mentioned ...ticky ticky ticky tock....and from there?...."JC" Johnny Conga.... :D

Hey Johnny Conga,
Your right man, did'nt mean to make it seem like I disagreed.(?)
There is only one martillo, but what makes it such a great rhythm is the
stuff you can do with it...
start off ticky ticky tick tocky....then add the BAM BAM BAM!
then back to ticky tick tocky.....add soemthing else, etc etc...




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Postby bingobongo » Sat Jun 02, 2007 3:58 am

Good enough for me Diceman - thanks for the feed back.
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Postby franc » Mon Jun 11, 2007 2:47 am

JC
you couln't be more right. there are many out there ''charlatanes'' that can not teach ---t!! they are only concern about the money, the hour to fly and leave it up to you to figure it out. take care. my best. franc :O
ibúkún,ire,
Franc ♪♪
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Postby Omelenko » Wed Jun 13, 2007 8:19 pm

In my opinion, the best bongo' DVD out there now is David Romero's. I have an old VHS from Manny Oquendo,is mostly on "paila" (timbales) technique but it has about 5 minutes on bongo playing and campana. Manny is one of my oldtime favorite bongocero and timbalero. His bongo playing is very tasty and traditional, I copied his "contratiempo" with the left hand on his martillo pattern, simple but powerfull and tasty. His campaneo is very tasty as well. If you can find it get it. Dario :D
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Postby Salseroberlinense » Fri Nov 16, 2007 2:39 am

The problem with bongó is right the fact that what you need to know goes much further than learning some basic rhythms like for the congas. Note that quite a couple of the basic rhythms people learn for congas are just usually not played with bongó. On the other hand, changüí for example is traditionally without conga and very hard for bongó. And if you come to jazz, neither conga nor bongó are bound to fixed patterns, there are as many variations as you want to invent.
In Latin music, if you just give a basis with the congas it does not make you a great player but at least you don't disturb the others. If you play martillo all the time on bongó it is legitimate to ask - why do we need you? Bongoses are there to give taste to the songs, to play repiques, to vary. That is very difficult and hard to teach. You need a good feeling for the songs, and there is no pattern that you can learn and it will fit for whatever you play with your band. The David Romero DVD is great to give an introduction, but even if you study it very well it won't be enough as a preparation for playing in a band. You need to listen a lot, and maybe study videos by great players. Dandy Rodriguez has great stuff on youtube, played with a band as well as percussion only.




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Postby Firebrand » Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:04 pm

Salseroberlinense wrote:The problem with bongó is right the fact that what you need to know goes much further than learning some basic rhythms like for the congas. Note that quite a couple of the basic rhythms people learn for congas are just usually not played with bongó. On the other hand, changüí for example is traditionally without conga and very hard for bongó. And if you come to jazz, neither conga nor bongó are bound to fixed patterns, there are as many variations as you want to invent.
In Latin music, if you just give a basis with the congas it does not make you a great player but at least you don't disturb the others. If you play martillo all the time on bongó it is legitimate to ask - why do we need you? Bongoses are there to give taste to the songs, to play repiques, to vary. That is very difficult and hard to teach. You need a good feeling for the songs, and there is no pattern that you can learn and it will fit for whatever you play with your band. The David Romero DVD is great to give an introduction, but even if you study it very well it won't be enough as a preparation for playing in a band. You need to listen a lot, and maybe study videos by great players. Dandy Rodriguez has great stuff on youtube, played with a band as well as percussion only.

I completely agree with this. I play bongos in solo settings (in a trio, quartet setting) and in latin-jazz, salsa groups. The technique for them is very different. you're fulfilling a different function in each group.

When I play with trio or quartets (playing flamenco, sambas, PR Jibaro music), I'm often the only percussionist (or, if I'm lucky, the flute player will grab a shaker or a cowbell and support my percussive role). In that case, if I'm playing something with a more "salsa" swing (or Jibaro music), it's preferable to remain "in the pocket" and just do a straight Martillo pattern. I supplement a break here or there to ease musical transitions in a song, but if I get too fancy, there's nothing to support the structure while I'm being fancy, and the rhythm gets unstable (and you get screamed at...."AFINCA!") :D

In those settings, I mimick stylistic grooves from other instruments on the bongo. When playing samba, I do a totally invented rhythm pattern that mimicks a pandeiro and a zurdo pattern, using both bongos. If I'm playing a bomba, I play a sica pattern on the hembra. If I'm playing plena, I alternate between hembra and macho and try to make it sound like what I play on congas, etc. It's all substitution, because the bongo really wasn't designed to play those rhythms.

When playing in a salsa setting (or in a setting where a conga player is present), I RARELY play the standard Martillo pattern. I flavor the music with improvisational patterns that A) dance around the conga tumbao and B) sound stylistically authentic to the style of music I'm playing (and for that, there is no substitition....you have to listen to how others have played the style before you). If I'm playing a guaguanco, I'll probably play the bongo in a way that sounds very much like the stylistic soloing of a Quinto. If I'm playing salsa, I do a pattern that is very syncopated and jumpy, alternating from open tones on the high drum, baqueteo hand motions, and open tones on the hembra. The pattern rarely repeats...it's completely improvisational. When in doubt, I don't play...simple. The function of the bongo in that setting is to flavor the music...so if you think the meat has enough sazon, stop flavoring...or keep it simple. I've seen many bongoceros not get called again for a gig because they think every salsa song is a bongo dexterity showcase

The Martillo is an excellent pattern for solo percussionist work with a trio or quartet, or for perform Jibaro music from Puerto Rico. I personally never do a straight Martillo pattern in salsa. I just flavor and improvise around a conguero with additions that sound authentic to my ear (and I got that from listening to so many bongoceros).

For soloing on bongos, I get inspiration from Giovanni Hidalgo and Anthony Carillo. In my opinion, the best bongoceros.
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Postby Gallichio » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:11 pm

bingobongo. I have a Beginners Bongo Drumming DVD that has made a lot of beginners very happy. I sell it on e-bay and have had some great feedback. It is for beginners. No flash, just the basics. Go to e-bay type in Bongos and you will find it. You can read what is on the DVD. It might be just what you are looking for. I also have a Beginners Conga Drumming that has sold very well.



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All the Best!
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Postby Coco » Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:54 pm

The problem with Salloum's bongo book is that he never explains the relationship of any of the patterns in it to clave.....which is ridiculous. It means that people learning from the book end up knowing a load of patterns they don't know how to use.

To me, the number one task of the bongo player is afinque.....and how can you do that if you don't know how to play with/ around the clave?

Salloums book can only really be used as an excercise book, like the Hannon book for piano. It's also way expensive for what you get.




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Postby Changuiri » Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:53 pm

Omelenko wrote:In my opinion, the best bongo' DVD out there now is David Romero's. I have an old VHS from Manny Oquendo,is mostly on "paila" (timbales) technique but it has about 5 minutes on bongo playing and campana. Manny is one of my oldtime favorite bongocero and timbalero. His bongo playing is very tasty and traditional, I copied his "contratiempo" with the left hand on his martillo pattern, simple but powerfull and tasty. His campaneo is very tasty as well. If you can find it get it. Dario :D

MUCHO AFINQUE CON MANNY OQUENDO! HIM AND THE HAMMER STICK IS ORIGINAL FOR SURE!

WHAT'S FUNNY ABOUT ALL THIS IS THAT THE MARTILLO WAS ORIGINALLY CREATED FOR BOLERO. I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NAME BUT IT WAS THE BONGOCERO FOR IGNACIO PIÑERO WHO INVENTED THE MARTILLO BACK IN THOSE DAYS SO THAT HE COULD ADAPT TO BOLERO. EVERYTHING ELSE WAS VERY UPTEMPO AND IMPROVISED.
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