What's best on folkloric style of rumba etc. - instructional books, videos on ..

[JohnnyConga]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfO5LYNnq60 here is the video by Javier Campos and Rumba......Johnny Conga

[JohnnyConga]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ex1wF3fGlN8 this is from 1964....chek out his "ol skool split hand style"... He still has his club in Nassau, when I was there in 97.....and he had 11 congas on stage....completely surrounding him....and he would swivel on his stool in a circle playing them all....yea guys thats what TV looked like back in the 60's when the world was in black and white....Johnny Conga...PS that is also the Great Steve Allan as the host...an incredible musician himself....

[JConga]

have u guys seen the videos above..??.....Johnny Conga

[vinnieL]

JC just read this thread today i'll be checking them out later on!

[Firebrand]

I was about to post on this myself.

I'm an experienced and professional conguero and have played in many types of settings (straight salsa, latin-jazz, bombazos, flamenco, Afro-Peruvian, straight ahead jazz, funk, etc.), and I know how to "feel" a guaguanco as a single player. I've witnessed and have had the privilige to interact with percussionists such as Giovanni Hidalgo, Paoli Mejias, Jose Hidalgo, Cachete and Los Majaderos, etc.

But...even with all that primary source experience, although the patterns are recognizable to me (as a whole), I still do not know how to break down a three part guaguanco into Quinto pattern, and the other two conga drums, a cajon or two, etc. My knowledge of what should be the cascara pattern on guaguanco is limited to two patterns: the standard salsa cascara pattern or the more guaguancoish "Taka...Tataka...taTA..TA..taka..ta". And of course, the Rumba claves, in 2-3 or 3-2 formation.

I own the Tomasito Cruz videos and have read his section on Guaguanco's history. However, it does not go more in depth into breaking down the rumba patterns or teaching people where certain parts are more appropriate. The Tomasito videos are great for training a conguero to know the professional "basic" patterns he'll need to plug and play in Latin bands. But, it doesn't go into depth into Abakua, 6/8, or Rumba TRADITIONAL rhythm breakdowns. If I sit in a rumba, I'm totally out of the loop in terms of what I have to do, unless I'm playing the Quinto, Clave, or Palitos. I don't know what to do in the two other "fundamento" drums or in the cajones.

I've noticed too that rumbas start VERY slowly and seem to reach a point where the palito player will play cowbells and the song picks up in energy and speed...(and a call and response section begins in the voices). Again, I don't know what to call it or how to break it down.

I second the statements made by some about not having the privilige of having good drummers around. I live in Western MA and I know only one individual (Victor "Papo" Sterling) who has the experience and performing authority to teach Rumba as it should be. But...sadly, even though Victor is a close friend, I've asked him several times to set up a local rumba community and his life's responsiblities do not allow it. In the absence of players, I want to be able to learn the patterns so I can pass them down to other percussionists and set up my own local rumba community.

To that end, are there YouTube videos that teach the patterns and their names and the contest of a "full" rumba...it's slower and faster parts, etc.

I'll look into the Michael Spiro book, but I don't want to waste my money on materials that don't do a good job in teaching rumba as a whole.

On a related note...business opportunity for some of the grand masters on this forum. Be the first to make a professional, instructional Rumba DVD!

[Derbeno]

Hey Firebrand,
Have you checked out the DVD by Javier Campos Martinez. I have a copy for sometime but have not yet worked it so I can't give you a full appraisal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfO5LYNnq60

[bongosnotbombs]

A lot of what you were discussing I feel has to be learnt through direct observation
and experience at a rumba and listening to recordings of Los Munequitos, etc........but.......

I have heard very good things about Arturo's book on Bembe, I think his Guaguanco
book should be the same.

Micheal Spiro's book I don't think will give you what your looking for, it is a great book though.
It's not rumba specific the way Arturo's book is.

[JConga]

The Javier Campos DVD right now is probably the only one out there that shows all the parts to playing guaguanco/rumba...which is posted here...now BOOKS CAN'T give u the experience of Rumba...especially when there written by guys who don't Rumba, but just think they do.....and I'm talking from personel experience here in Seattle...Johnny Conga

[Firebrand]

Where can I find the Javier campos DVD at the cheapest price online? If I can learn the basic patterns to Tumbadora (Salidor) and Tresdos, as well as the cajones, then at least I can feel a little more at ease at a jam (if I ever can start one in my area). in terms of solo ideas for Quinto, I listen to a lot of rumba music and I can play guaguanco effectively on 2-3 congas. But...if you told me to break it down into three parts, I couldn't do it. Kinda like playing Plena on congas...you can do it...but can you break it down into the three pandero parts? It's more an issue of authencity and respect to the music...because realistically speaking, it's rare the amount of times that I can participate in a full-fledged traditional rumba. Professionally speaking, my ability to do a rumba "alone" on 2-3 congas is a more "in-demand" skill.

Thanks for the insights everyone. I'll be waiting for a link to the Javier Campos DVD.

[Congadelica]

I have been using this site for the past week learning separate parts for Guaguanco . all parts are covered .good insight


http://congamasterclass.com/index.php/Table/Guaguanco/

[bongosnotbombs]

I can play guaguanco effectively on 2-3 congas. But...if you told me to break it down into three parts, I couldn't do it. It's more an issue of authencity and respect to the music...because realistically speaking, it's rare the amount of times that I can participate in a full-fledged traditional rumba. Professionally speaking, my ability to do a rumba "alone" on 2-3 congas is a more "in-demand" skill.

That's kind of a unique situation your in, the separate parts for guaguanco, columbia and yambu are available all over the place.
That's the way I've always learnt the rhythms, each drum separately, one person per drum.Playing guaguanco on 2-3 drums and just one person isn't really guaguanco it's an adaptionof the rhythm.

As far as what the basic rhythms of each separate drum, I think Gary Greenberg's book is excellent.
http://cubandrumming.com/index.html

but like JC says, the book doesn't give the experience of how to play, they are just references of one
example of what to play.

[Quinto Governor II]

How detailed is the Javier Campos DVD? The clip on YouTube looks pretty promising, but may depend on how well he explains it, and by what method. Getting the basic stoke patterns for an assemble guanguanco, is not that difficult. But it will get boring after awhile, without the interplay between the drums That's where I believe the feel that everyone talks about comes from . I still can't do it, mainly I think, because of lack of opportunity, to play that way for an extensive period of time. If you are just learning, like a lot of us are, its better to have the guagua and clave, if you have enough people, to add a little flavor, to make up for the lack of improvisation. If someone can sing just a few coros from different songs, that would add even more.

[kevintimba]

Hi - Although I wrote the Tomás Cruz method and highly recommend it for other things, it's not going to be useful for rumba - it only has one rumba marcha (in vol. 2). For rumba you need Spiro's "The Conga Drummer's Guidebook",

http://www.latinpulsemusic.com/albums/show/111

... which is very heavy on rumba, and Peñalosa's new Quinto book:

http://www.amazon.com/Rumba-Quinto-Davi ... 1453713131

... which is completely about rumba. I've yet to see anything that comes close to those and life without either one would be unimaginable. They're completely different and you need them both. Also, this album:

http://www.descarga.com/cgi-bin/db/1757 ... 4sksB;;166

This one is even better:

http://www.amazon.com/Guaguanco-Matance ... 188&sr=1-9

But it seems to be out of print.

As for Tomás and rumba, the best thing is a non-commercial home video DVD of him and Reinier Guerra playing Sitios enteros with the camera looking down. The band is called "Cuban Timba AllStars". It's probably on youtube.