ALMAS and BANDS

[Omelenko1]

Call me old fashion if you will, but if I'm going to pay top dollar for a conga drum, I'm going to demand both bands and alma. I love the old Cuban Gonzalo Vergara look on a conga, that's why Matt Smith, Jay and Junior Tirado congas are the best congas out there. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but if you take good care of your congas (consistant proper lubrication of the lugs, untuning every time you finish playing, staying away from thick skins on the macho, keeping your congas on padded bags when not in use), its very uncommon for any of the congas metioned to split or crack and they will never go out of round, if you follow what's inside the parenthesis. To me an out-of-round conga is the biggest turn-off, it's like a woman with a flat ass.

I have had Gon Bops and Valjes, which are very good congas, go out of round and split on me after years go by and I always take excellent care of my congas. The same with LP classics. Almas are a necessary thing. Volcanos are beautiful congas, but I'll take a Ritmo or a SOS over it anytime. That's just my opinion, but if I'm going to pay over $500 for a conga drum, I going to demand bands and alma.
Junior Tirado congas enclosed.

Dario

[joaozinho]

I'm sorry Dario but I dont agree whit you.One out- of- rond conga is not even close to the horrible women flat ass,no way man there is nothig worst I never play Ritmos or SOS,but they are just marvelous.I have all the possible care whit my babies(LP classics)so I hope to be lucky with this issue.

a mi me dà calafrios solo de mirar las tumbas que tienes,vaya calidad!!!

[jorge]

One of the best sounding quintos I ever played had a head that was as oval shaped as an egg. It was Regalao's quinto that he played with Afrocuba in 1985, and it had a beautiful dry sounding tone with very short sustain. That short sustain made it easier to play, and it sounded great on fast columbias. Of course he plays about the best quinto in the world on Matanzas columbias, but still the drum sound fit the rhythm so perfectly. I didn't play it long, but Regalao made it sing and I have not heard a better sounding quinto in hundreds of rumbas since then. I think the oval shape gave it the short sustain and dry sound. I didn't look but I doubt it had an alma.

[BMac]

I play Salsa Club Series Mopercs, which have no bands. None of the Mopercs have almas to my understanding. But on the subject of bands, Michel of Moperc told me himself that the bands he puts on some of his other lines of congas are decorative, not functional. I may not have his exact words there, so I didn't add quotes. Now don't overlook that Moperc staves are carved from solid wood, probably on a bandsaw, not formed under stress. Moperc staves are not steamed and bent. So even any assembly jigs used need not support tremendous forces. Apparently, with modern adhesives used in the stave joints, the bands have become a matter of traditional aesthetic taste. Volcanos, by the way, have biscuited joints, so whether or not one agrees with the structural benefits of bicscuits over bands, none can say there are any shortcuts in their making. These makers have made intentional decisions. They're not just trimming costs by leaving out bands. In any event, many sellers of used banded congas acknowledge that the bands are loose but in place. An ad I recently saw for lightly used Islas comes to mind. I've seen such descriptions many times on ebay and such. I don't think today's bands stop stave separation. The staves separate or not ... as others have said in a nearby thread ... according to the original quality of the drum, the curing of the wood, and the treatment of the drum after construction.

I suspect that bands of old actually held the drums together, keeping old congas from collapsing into several pieces, while cracks and stave separations were more accepted. We compulsively fix such issues now ... so the old rough solution to that problem (bands), remains only now as a visible reminder of the tradition of the drum.

Even the OP in this thread first cites a particular look he requires, before other considerations are mentioned. There likely will always be bands put on some congas to serve people's tastes.

As for almas, my first Moperc went quite out of round within a year of its purchase. There was an uneven (thickness) head on it and I was compensating by dramatic torque differences on the lugs. I was also playing it too high, and leaving tension on it for weeks at a time. I didn't keep in in a bag. I ultimately put a uniform skin on it, and started treating it a lot better. It went from having a 3/16 diameter fluctuation (egg shape) to perfectly round again in a few months. I'm glad there was no alma. I'm afraid it would have only complicated the picture ... perhaps by cracking the drum or becoming disbonded depending on the attachment method.

So the debate goes on like the beat of a drum ... and someone in the nearby thread remarked that there was no debate.

Sure there is.

Cheers,
BMac

[RitmoBoricua]

Better adhesives plus biscuits and steel pins use to keep staves together today have virtually make steel bands obosolete for it's original purpose. Since wood moves back and forth steel bands are not best way to keep the integrity of a drum. Around here in the east coast wood contracts in the winter expands in the summer.

[onile]

Alafia Abures Mi!
I hope that you are all well and abundantly blessed!

Reading the various posts here on this thread has brought to mind an interesting story told to me by a very dear family friend. It does apply here, although not directly to "conga drum" manufacturing.

Over the years, this family would gather together for the Christmas holiday and enjoy breaking bread with one another. The tradition, which had started many, many years ago, was one that was unquestionable down through the ages. The women would gather in the kitchen to prepare the holiday ham and all the fixings that went with it. Each year they would "cut-off" the end part of the ham (can't remember exactly what they did with it though), and place the ham in the oven to cook. This went on for generations without question, until one of the youngest female members of the family was helping in the kitchen asked one of the elders..."Why do we cut off the end piece of the ham?" They all looked at each other, and no one had an answer other than...."that's the way we've always cooked it." The young girl went to the eldest member who was setting the table and asked her, to which she replied..."child, my great grandmother used to cut the end of the ham off because it wouldn't fit in the pan if she didn't." "No one ever asked about it since, and so we continued to do so to this day."

The point, as I'm sure you've already figured out, is that times change, cooking utensil sizes change, climates change, wood working technology changes, wood working tools change, but what continues to stay the same is........."tradition"! Tradition is what we "proudly" hold on to, sometimes without question and defend to no end our right to continue with it. There's really nothing harmful in keeping tradition, providing it's not something intentionally done to hurt, kill or maim anyone, but then again.....this is only my humble opinion that is offered to this thread.

I personally love the banded "look" of my drums, and I understand that with "biscuit joinery" (which my Fats are made in this fashion), there is little possibility of splitting. I see great logic in Abure BMac's post regarding some of the newest woodworking technology to help increase the life of many conga drums, with or without bands, or almas. We each have our own preference.

Respectfully,

Onile!

[KING CONGA]

There is always that character, signature if you will with some drums, referring specifically to Cuban style drums. In other words, based on tradition, I believe for instance that an S.O.S. Conga, a Matt Smith or any other conga which has bands for that matter would look hideous without them. Personally speaking, to me nothing beats the look of a traditional style Cuban Conga.
See attached.

[bongosnotbombs]

I remember a conversation I had with Ralph Flores of Resolution drums a while back. For a while his father Tom Flores was making Valje drums with bands on them. He stopped using bands because his customers were requesting drums without them so they wouldn't scratch their clothes. I like drums both ways, makes no difference to me, bands or almas.

[onile]

Abure Bongosnotbombs!
That's exactly the point, they're both beautiful! Some like the traditional banded drums and others prefer the naked wood look! I too like both, well I should qualify it, I like the look of my Fats (The huge belly, Barriga)

[KING CONGA]

We should have a poll, what is your absolute preference, with or without bands? Though some of us like them both ways I’m sure that we have a preference. Only choose one.
Maybe we can think of it this way and ask ourselves, "If I could have just one set of Congas which set would they be"?
Mine would be a Vergara set. As I’ve already described, because I prefer the traditional Cuban look.

[onile]

Oye Papa!
You're putting the "Sofie's Choice" question to some of us....."if you had two children and could only save one, which one would it be?"

I'll cross that one when I truly have to, simply because I consider my drums just that, my children. Of course though, for the sake of this thread......my Matthew Smiths are standing straight and tall!

Suave!

Onile

[BMac]

I have the set I would choose.
Moperc's Salsa Club Series!
Cheers,
BMac

[Jaisen Torres]

wow that is a nasty pic , these are actually my drums there a new set of my ash juniors in front & my oak timbas in back , i havent seen this photo in a while , glad to see it darrio

oh & as for the topic i agree a hundred percent, i love the traditional look & feel & sound of a traditional drum, also i wanted to add that bands & almas are super important when it comes to a hand crafted drum , plus i can say for sure that a drum with in alma always has a sweet timbre to it , no doubt !

moperc drums for example are well built , & michele is at the top of the best craftsmen , but he does not throw almas in his drums & they lack that sweet timbre , the only mopercs that hits sweet are the maple cubano series he stop making.

[ABAKUA]

I love the traditional Cuban style.
I have been using LP drums for over 18 years and have been endorsing their product for the last 7 or so years.
For a while now I have been after a requinto screamer for use in my rumbas & guaguanco section arrangements with my salsa dura band.
I could walk into the distributor any day of the week and pick up an LP quinto or Requinto (if in stock) at just below cost price from the factory. However, for the principal of what I want, in terms of sound, look and feel I am getting Matthew Smith to custom make me a 9.75" requinto replicating a Requena drum he recently restored for KingKonga as seen here:
http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5075&start=45

It is going to cost more, take longer, not to mention freight cost to me.
However none of that matters because when I get it, it will be everything I ever wanted, needed or dreamed of having in a drum.
I am a modern, new school drummer with strong old school tradional training and beliefs. Alma & Bands for me anyday, however due to my location not being anywhere near the likes of SOS, JCR, Isla, Ritmo, Junior etc etc etc these types of drums are an extreme rarity and I would be surprised if there were any at all within the country.
While old school GON BOPS are seen and pop up from time to time for sale, traditional styled drums are extremely rare.
The mass produced stuff is everywhere here, LP, Meinl, GonBop, TOCA, Pearl etc.

And while I have never laid my hands on a Matthew Smith drum nor even seen one with my own eyes in the flesh, I am more than happy to pay for them and wait the time its going to take to get one, and I have every belief with not a single fraction of doubt that it will tear up any other drum I could possibly get in town based on the reputation alone.

[Omelenko1]

Abakua,

Once them Matthews arrive down under you'll be a happy camper. We all get impatient, but once them boxes arrive and you inspect the goods, you're going to say Ñoooooo!. Just ask brother "Onile" about that feeling. That rumba requinto you ordered will be the icing on the cake! Cuidate compay.

Dario