LP Matador quinto compared to Aspire Conga, both 11"

[drum4fun]

Hello,

I bought an 11" quinto LP Matador off of Craigslist yesterday. Ive already got an 11" LP Aspire (in the Aspire line an 11" drum is the Conga) but the Aspire has the black hardware and the Matador has chrome hardware so i figured that since i was getting the Matador at a pretty good price, it would just be an upgrade for the Aspire and id sell the Aspire for the same $$ that i paid for the Matador and have a better drum for free. Both are the deep red wood color.

I got the Matador home and put it side by side with the Aspire. (I removed the 9.25" Toca from the stand and put the Matador in its place.) It wasnt long before i began to think id be keeping the Aspire. Even though both are 11" drums, the tones are clearly different. I noticed that the Matador is 2" taller than the Aspire, and fatter around the belly. A cloth tape tells me the Aspire is 46.5 inches in circumfrence. The Matador is 49.25" around. Im guessing these length and girth differences account for the deeper tone in the Matador.

So, my question. What sort of tone difference is there between 3 sizes of drums of a similar series? From what ive read...the relation should be a quarter or harmonic fifth. (the 'here comes the bride' example). Is that the standard seperation? It seems that by my rough estimate the 11" Matado compared to the 11" Aspire is nearly this tone difference.

The difference between my 9.5" Toca to the 11" Aspire is wider than a harmonic 5th.

Comments?

[Jibaro]

When you say "tone" I think you really mean "pitch". When you're talking about harmonic intervals (fourths and fifths) you're definitely talking about pitch.

Pitch is strictly a function of frequency - how fast your drum skin vibrates; the same as a guitar string or violin string.
You can change the vibration frequency by using skins (or strings) of different thickness, different head diameters (or string lengths), or by changing the tension on the skin (or strings) by tuning.

The rest of the drum (or guitar or violin) is for amplification and resonance and doesn't affect the pitch but of course does have other big effects on the sound you hear (and that's what most people would mean by tone).

So on your two 11" drums, you're getting a different pitch not because the shape and size of the body is different, but only because of tuning and perhaps skin thickness. I'd wager the Matador skin is the same or thicker than the Aspire skin so you might well have different tension to get the same pitch. But you ought to be able to tune either of them to be a reasonable interval higher or lower than the other.

[Omelenko1]

Forget about the harmonic notes. Sell the Aspire and the Toca requinto and get yourself an 11 3/4 and a 12 1/2 Matador to complement the one you just bought. Matadors are much superior in every way to Aspires. The Toca 9 3/4 requinto is for soloing, good for a rumba player.

Dario

[pdxisbest]

You only like the Aspire because you're used to it and it's easy to get "slap" like sounds out of the scrawny heads. They're called "Aspire" because people aspire to new drums as soon as they know how to play. Matadors are twice the drum, and if you take lessons and learn how to play you'll get twice the sound out of them.

[drum4fun]

Hello, thank you for your replies. I look at the Aspire and the Matador side by side. Both 11" heads. The lengths and girths are different as i mention in my original post. But these 2 drums appear very similar in construction and i dont understand where the better sound quality is believed to come from comparing the Matador to the Aspire. Yes, Aspire is the beginner line. For those who 'Aspire' to move up to better skills, better sounds, better drums. The Matadors are believed to be better drums and have a more loyal following. LP charges significantly more money for a Matador than an Aspire.

Im a machinest by trade. I can identify physical and mechanical differences. I notice similarities and differences between the Aspire and Matador.

When i look into the drums from the bottom, the wood appears to be the same type, (the LP website states that the Aspire and Matador series drums are both constructed with Siam Oak), the staves are about the same widths, the glue lines look identical, the sideplate hardware inside is identical, the outside finish appears the same, even being the same stain color, there does not appear to be a physical difference except that the girth and lengths of the wood staves are different in size.

The head tensioning hardware is obviously different. The tension rods are larger diameter on the Matador (5/16") than the Aspire (9/32). The side plates on the Matador are fancier than those on the Aspire but roughly the same size overall with identical hole patterns. Both drums have 6 tension rods. The EZ curve rim on the Aspire is different in appearance from the Soft Strike rim on the Matador. But when i look at the 'purpose' of the tensioning hardware, there does not appear to be a functional design advantage between one over the other. True, the larger tension rods on the Matador will hold up longer to the rigors or repeated tightening of the nuts on the threaded rods. The Matador rim has a slightly different shape and fit, but in the big picture this hardwares purpose is to pull a piece of leather tight across the top opening of a drum. The rims look is not important to the resulting sound of the drum. (It may or may not be friendlier to the hands).The sound quality starts where the skin touches the curved bearing edge. The bearing edges for the skin heads appear of identical shape and design. I do notice that the thickness of the steel of the rims on the two drums is different, so i suppose it 'could' be possible that the thinner steel on the Aspire rim could flex or bow and thus allow areas of the skin head to be tensioned differently (out of tune) around the playing surface. It could be possible, but i think its alot the same function of the larger tensioning rods. The heavier hardware biggest advantage is in holding up to repeated tuning and de tuning over continued years of use. The rawhide skins on the 2 heads are both original LP skins and appear to be the same quality and thickness.

So, functionally speaking, and comparing brand new correctly tuned Aspire and Matador drums from the factory, the only real 'sound' difference is due to the length and girth dimensions of the shells. Yes?..No?

Maybe you guys can explain it to me.

Thanks

[thomas newton]

I don't think you are giving enough credit to the effects of the hardware, especially if you bear in mind it is all under tension. Tap the rim or the lugs they will also ring.

[bongosnotbombs]

You've described the reasons why the Matadors sound better and are better in your post.

girth and lengths of the wood staves are different in size.

The different sizes, Matadors are a full size drum with a full size sound. The thicker staves or girth makes the drum more solid and strong, probably improves the sound too. I think Matador staves may be plied where the Aspires may not be. Maybe even higher grade wood too. The Aspires never seem to have much bass, possibly due to their smaller size.

The tension rods are larger diameter on the Matador

Aspire tensions rods can and will bend, so can the rims. The best benefit in my opinion is that the Matador hardware can handle better, thicker aftermarket heads that would be too much for the Aspire hardware.

[DJBakan]

The tension rods are larger diameter on the Matador

Aspire tensions rods can and will bend, so can the rims. The best benefit in my opinion is that the Matador hardware can handle better, thicker aftermarket heads that would be too much for the Aspire hardware.

Saludos a Todos

You mentioned something that I was just wondering. I have a set of Galaxy Congas that I use to Band and drum practice.
But one day one of them accidentally got a small superficial chip. It hurt me like it was my skin.
I was thinking in getting matador since there are middle class drums but my space in the house, my budget and specially my wife do not allows me any more drums in the house. So now I decided to use my Aspires for regular drumming practices, and I was thinking in getting Remo heads for the Aspires, I know there are for 10" and 11" not sure about 12". I know it will improve the sound a little bit but not sure how much, do you recommend or is it worth putting Remo heads in Aspires Congas?
Just wondering.

DJBakan

[Jibaro]

So, functionally speaking, and comparing brand new correctly tuned Aspire and Matador drums from the factory, the only real 'sound' difference is due to the length and girth dimensions of the shells. Yes?..No?

Maybe you guys can explain it to me.

Thanks

I appreciate trying to use a scientific method to analyze the difference in sound between these two drums. If we had two identical drums and could vary one characteristic at a time between them to judge the effect, we'd have an interesting study. But we're not really sure here that the skins are the same, or the bearing edge, or the wood quality, or the construction, or the tuning, or even the age and condition of the drums.

In general, I'd say that a couple inches in height and an inch in belly diameter would be among the less important factors - although as BNB pointed out, bass volume would be the one you'd likely notice.

But if you were a drum designer and your objective was to make an inexpensive drum for the low end of the market, you'd probably use cheaper wood (not plied?), less wood (shorter and thinner bodies), cheaper hardware, joining techniques that required less labor (no biscuits), and a minimum of finishing work (bearing edges for example); if you can shave off a couple pounds somehow you'll save in shipping from Thailand too. If you were a quality control manager, you'd save your best skins for the more expensive drums, and you might let a cheap drum off the line with some minor defects that wouldn't pass the QC on the mid-price model. Any of those cost cutting measures could have some effect on the sound quality of the finished product.

So no one here is going to verify your hypothesis that the tonal differences you're hearing are only because of the body shape between your two drums; and you shouldn't go forward thinking that longer and fatter drums always sound better. There are just too many variables for that kind of comparison.

[bongosnotbombs]

I just remembered a funny story about LP Aspires. I went to a jazz study group that was just starting out. The organizer was a woman that played piano and was having the session at her house. So she told me she had some congas there, so I didn't bring my own. What was waiting for me when I got there? LP Aspires! Anyways I played the session, and I told them repeatedly, that when I brought my own congas I would sound different. Well I never got the chance, the piano player said she couldn't hear herself, it was too loud, etc. I blamed it on the too bright sound of those LP Aspires with their small bodies and thin skins. Instead of being down closer to the bottom and the bass, I was up with the piano and guitar.

[congamyk]

LP Aspires should be banned from the earth.

[GuruPimpi]

Hello!

I just want to say that I agree with you guys about quality and effort put in series of products like Aspire. My first drums were CP bongos and I thought they were the best...for about 2 months... At my teacher lesson i stayed to have lesson with intermediate students and there was this girl and her Matador bongos were just something else. Way better, cleaner in sound, ...
Personally i don't buy instrument for begginers anymore... I appreciate Dario's words, get yourself a matador sisters to complement your matador and go nuts with them... I also understand the emotional bond with instruments, so I haven't sell any of my drums...yet Hope won't have to!
my 5 cents

PimpS