What makes a head dead and is a deadhead always dead?

[burke]

Yes I am hoping for grateful dead jokes ... but also a real question.

If a head has been on a long time and is good and streached out - why can't you just soak it and re-mount it and get rid of the 8 inch space between the rim and the ring?

and if not, what is the cause - oils all gone - too thin - all cosmic vibrations beaten out - other?

[yambu321]

HELLO BURKE,

YES, A SKIN MAY BE SAVED, SOMEWHAT, BY DOING WHAT YOU HAVE DESCRIBED. BUT, THE SKIN WILL NEVER BE WHAT IT ONCE WAS, AND WILL BE MORE SUCEPTABLE TO TEARING.

SO, UNLESS YOU ARE IN A WORLD OF HURT, I WOULD HIGHLY RECOMMEND TO YOU, TO JUST BUY A NEW FLAT SKIN, OR PRE-MOUNTED HEAD THAT IS SPECIFIC TO YOUR DRUM. IT WOULD BE JUST SO WORTH IT.

TAKE CARE, AND GOOD LUCK;

CHARLIE.

[Chupacabra]

A good question indeed and I think the only way to find out decisively is to try it out. If you are satisfied with the results then it can be done! It really depends on what you want out of your drum. Sometimes (actually, most of the time) if you cut corners on something, it doesn't matter what, it'll come back and haunt you sooner or later.
You might bring it back to life to a certain extent, but how long will it last? If the centre portion of a tumba is in good condition and the outer portions are damaged there's no reason why you couldn't soak it out and try it out on another drum of a smaller diameter that could use the thicker skin of a tumba. It's still a gamble. Personally, I would probably give it a try because I'm basically just a beginner and do this just for the enjoyment and learning about reheading and what makes a good sound and what doesn't is all part of the process.
For the more serious players or pros it would not be worth the time or money - just change it and it's done. And I think most pros keep extras that are already formed on hand for quick changes if they tour or have steady gigs - correct me if I'm wrong on that one.

[burke]

BTW - My lovely steer heads are still pretty new and sound great - just a hypothetical question promted by other posts.

Hoping some of the skin specialists might chime in on what exactly the state of being "dead" means in regards to a skin (too thin, no oils, dirt -other)

[Thomas Altmann]

I am in no way a skin specialist; but my idea is that with the time, the inner texture of this naturally grown membrane tears up in itself. In this process, the membrane loses its vibration properties.

Once that has happened, the moment the skin breaks at the edges of the drum might not very distant either, so you better replace the whole thing in time.

You would not put the shammy leather that you use to clean your windows on your drums either, because they did something to the material that makes it soft and smooth, but as a drum head completely unsuitable. I guess a skin that has been under high tension for several years comes somewhere near that type of leather.

Just my naive speculation -

Thomas

[burke]

"the inner texture of this naturally grown membrane tears up in itself. In this process, the membrane loses its vibration properties."

That sounds plausible.

[Isaac]

The sound "dies" when inner elasticity becomes weaker over time.
Eventually you're playing something more like cardboard,
and adding oils really won't help too much.
Just like old shoes, socks or underwear...
It just comes a time to say goodbye.

~ ISAAC

[Joseph]

"the inner texture of this naturally grown membrane tears up in itself. In this process, the membrane loses its vibration properties."

That sounds plausible.

The sound "dies" when inner elasticity becomes weaker over time.
Eventually you're playing something more like cardboard,
and adding oils really won't help too much.

Which leads to the (much discussed on other threads) question:
Does regular detuning extend the life of the "elasticity", thus keeping the skin and it's unique vibrational sound "alive" for a longer time?

Do oil treatments contribute to maintaining "inner elasticity"?

Shameless GD Joke:
How meany Deadheads does it take to change a lightbulb?
One to actually change it, 2,000 to take pictures of it, and 10,000 to follow it around until it burns out.

~Joseph

[Chupacabra]

Pa-doom-tsss

[Isaac]

Which leads to the (much discussed on other threads) question:
Does regular detuning extend the life of the "elasticity", thus keeping the skin and it's unique vibrational sound "alive" for a longer time?

YES, but overly detuning and not using your drum enough may also leave it
it "shrunk" depressed position. Moderation in all is good.

Do oil treatments contribute to maintaining "inner elasticity"?

NO, just prevents dryness. Too much will in fact deaden a skin.
Bad skins that ring too much will improve a bit with oiling
because you want to "deaden" the ringing. It will help in breaking in a new
hard skin. Again - moderation.

Others may have their own experiences of good oils to use. At JCR we only use a tiny dab
of Manteca de Corojo ( red Palm Seed Oil - not the cooking variety) and recommend doing it twice a year in
a small amount - a dab about the size of a nickel- and then wipe
off the excess.

ISAAC

[Thomas Altmann]

I detune my bongos, because the skins are thinner and the tension higher.

Sometimes I leave my congas tuned fairly up; 1. because I'm lazy, 2. because I feel that the skins have to "settle" on the drum and get stretched into the proper position. This applies especially to new skins that have to be "broken in". Only when I have to really tune them up and up several times in the night, like in a humid club, detuning is obligatory.

In no case the heads should be loosened completely, neither on bongos, nor on congas or any other drum with natural skin. In detuned state they should still sound like a low drum.

Isaac: Funny you apply manteca de corojo to the skins. In Cuba, drummers use it on their fingers (and I picked that up).

TA

[Joseph]

In no case the heads should be loosened completely, neither on bongos, nor on congas or any other drum with natural skin. In detuned state they should still sound like a low drum.

Why is that?......... to prevent loose heads from developing "sag"?

[Thomas Altmann]

I knew that somebody would ask this. Although there are certain things of practice that I just keep on doing without asking why, here is what I figured out:
What you call "sag" implies that the contact position of the head with the edge of the drum changes or wanders each time you tune it - much more than if you kept the position set; at the same time, the directions of tension vary considerably and to a higher degree as if you would keep a basic pre-tuning. The skin never really breaks in, which results in extra difficult tuning and unharmoniuos vibrations within the membrane. (This is the non-funky, bachelor-type of "new-head" sound, like the "new-car" smell.) Also remember that the most stress that a drum head is exposed to is at the edge of the drum; here it is where most skins start to break first. If you are constantly changing contact positions and resetting the basic tension pattern, the skin will age sooner.

I hope this unscientific explanation will satisfy you as much as it sufficed for myself. If someone wants to provide a concrete physical proof for it, go ahead.

Thomas

[Mike]

Thomas,
From a completely unscientific point of view as well I agree with you.
The only thing I wonder about is the tuning/detuning of a quinto:
Does leaving it cranked up not put too much pressure on shell, skin and hardware?
The same applies to the bongó macho.In both quinto and macho cases I always detune
for one turn - that is enough IMHO.
But - as could be seen in the past - opinions differ considerably concerning the detuning matter.

The only logical thing to me is that continued stretching must result in some kind of
slackness, wearing out etc. time after time. The only question is when that point has
been reached. I have not encountered a deadened skin due to overstretching yet, but
rather a dead sound as a result of either bad tuning or bad skins.



Just my 2 cents.

[Thomas Altmann]

Mike:

As I mentioned in my previous mail, I always detune my bongos (unless don't forget to do so). The same goes for a quinto (proper). And I never leave any drum (with natural skins) "cranked up", I just keep it under low tension, obviously in the same manner as you do.

TA