SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Manufacturers, brands, skins, maintenance, stands, sticks, michrophones and other accessories for congueros can be discussed into this forum ...... leave your experience or express your doubts!

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby pcastag » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:20 am

I bought a 12 and 13 from Jay in 1996 for 335 each, I ordered them with chrome, the tes golpes and tumba were great for folkloric situations, but really disappeared in a salsa setting. Cherry is a very stable wood and over time doesn't expand or contract as much as oak which is another reason I orderds them, some guy out in cali bought them from me a few years back, really nice full drums with big bass tones, but not a lot of bite.
PC
PC
User avatar
pcastag
 
Posts: 1421
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:33 pm
Location: Houston, TX

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby jorge » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:11 am

I find the SOS cherry 11" is plenty loud for tres dos in a rumba. Mark tell me if I am wrong at the rumba tomorrow. In fact, here is a direct comparison of 3 SOS drums at the Brecht Forum rumba last week, ash quinto and tumbadora and cherry tres dos. They sound pretty well balanced for volume, the tres dos is definitely not too soft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C_J0HNvZC8&feature=player_embedded
I used to play in a rumba group with a 12" cherry tres golpe and a 13" cherry tumba. They were always loud enough for rumba and kept up with my 12" oak tres golpe. The cherry drums have a beautiful warm tone, nicer than the oak. I have not played full on salsa over amplified instruments with either the oak or cherry SOS drums and can't comment on their presence in the live mix, although I would hesitate to play salsa without decent mics on the congas.
Jay told me back when he first started making cherry drums that he chose cherry because the coefficient of expansion due to humidity was the lowest of any of the wood options, and the drums were less likely to crack with Northeast seasonal changes in humidity in apartments. In my small experience, neither of my cherry drums have cracked through about 18 winter/summer cycles, but my ash drum and 2 of my 4 oak drums (both with Watco oil finish and no polyurethane) have all cracked in multiple places. Once the oak or ash drums crack due to expansion/contraction related to humidity, and they are fixed with good glue, they tend to never crack again. Oak definitely withstands dents (from drumsticks at rumbas) better than cherry.
Last edited by jorge on Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
jorge
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:47 am
Location: Teaneck, NJ

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby FidelsEyeglasses » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:02 am

jorge wrote:I find the SOS cherry 11" is plenty loud for tres dos in a rumba. Mark tell me if I am wrong at the rumba tomorrow. I used to play in a rumba group with a 12" cherry tres golpe and a 13" cherry tumba. They were always loud enough for rumba and kept up with my 12" oak tres golpe. The cherry drums have a beautiful warm tone, nicer than the oak. I have not played full on salsa over amplified instruments with either the oak or cherry SOS drums and can't comment on their presence in the live mix, although I would hesitate to play salsa without decent mics on the congas.
Jay told me back when he first started making cherry drums that he chose cherry because the coefficient of expansion due to humidity was the lowest of any of the wood options, and the drums were less likely to crack with Northeast seasonal changes in humidity in apartments. In my small experience, neither of my cherry drums have cracked through about 18 winter/summer cycles, but my ash drum and 2 of my 4 oak drums (both with Watco oil finish and no polyurethane) have all cracked in multiple places. Once the oak or ash drums crack due to expansion/contraction related to humidity, and they are fixed with good glue, they tend to never crack again. Oak definitely withstands dents (from drumsticks at rumbas) better than cherry.


Everyone knows I have my "opinions" (don't we all? :roll:), but don't get me wrong, I have nothing against Cherry wood drums, I just find their "warm" sound too "warm" for my own tastes, but I don't say no one should ever buy them.

I remember that the late Manuel Martinez Olivera a.k.a. "El Llanero" had one that Paula bought for him years ago (@ $250.00) and when it used to show up at the Sunday park rumba/s, when I played it, it sounded like playing a drum with a cloth table napkin laid over the skin.

As far as "the coefficient of expansion due to humidity", sounds cool... but I have never had my S.O.S. Oak, or when I owned one an Ash S.O.S. crack or split here in Manhattan (cold northeast, steamed heated city apartment),
or in New Orleans when I lived there
Jay's Oak's are like "Old Ironsides" (Old Ironsides was made of White Oak).

How come Jay never made Cherry wood bongoes? Or did he... I never saw any.

Markito
User avatar
FidelsEyeglasses
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:29 am
Location: Manhattan, N.Y.C. a.k.a. La Gran Manzana

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby jorge » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:12 am

My 2 oak drums that cracked had Watco oil finish and no polyurethane. The 2 oak drums I have with polyurethane have never cracked. That ash tumbadora in the video above frpm the rumba last week cracked in about 6 places over the last few years, I just got finished fixing the cracks a couple of months ago. Not sure why no one seems to make cherry bongos, but the cracks I have had in my LP bongos have all been in the glue lines and not due to expansion/contraction from humidity changes.
jorge
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:47 am
Location: Teaneck, NJ

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby FidelsEyeglasses » Sun Dec 05, 2010 5:49 am

Cadenza wrote:Hey Markito - it's funny you should mention Jay's "econoline" drums, me mentioned them to me on the phone last week. He explained that for a few years he made "econoline" drums with carved staves, rather than the more labor intense steamed and bent process. He mentioned that another maker had annoyed him by using this manufacturing process so he made a bunch that way out of spite and knocked down the price to show what they are really worth... great guy to chat with, really funny and entertaining stories 8)


Yep, I told ya'.
There's nothing wrong with S.O.S. Cherry wood drums... I was just wondering how many people actually were aware that
S.O.S C.W's were/are his shall we say.. "more affordable" line of drums.
And yes, thanks for reminding me Cadenza, re: carved staves, rather than the more labor intense steamed and bent process, which also contributed to Cherry wood's being able to be sold for $250.00 each.

M.
User avatar
FidelsEyeglasses
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:29 am
Location: Manhattan, N.Y.C. a.k.a. La Gran Manzana

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby FidelsEyeglasses » Sun Dec 05, 2010 6:23 am

jorge wrote:I find the SOS cherry 11" is plenty loud for tres dos in a rumba. Mark tell me if I am wrong at the rumba tomorrow. In fact, here is a direct comparison of 3 SOS drums at the Brecht Forum rumba last week, ash quinto and tumbadora and cherry tres dos. They sound pretty well balanced for volume, the tres dos is definitely not too soft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C_J0HNvZC8&feature=player_embedded
I used to play in a rumba group with a 12" cherry tres golpe and a 13" cherry tumba. They were always loud enough for rumba and kept up with my 12" oak tres golpe. The cherry drums have a beautiful warm tone, nicer than the oak. I have not played full on salsa over amplified instruments with either the oak or cherry SOS drums and can't comment on their presence in the live mix, although I would hesitate to play salsa without decent mics on the congas.
Jay told me back when he first started making cherry drums that he chose cherry because the coefficient of expansion due to humidity was the lowest of any of the wood options, and the drums were less likely to crack with Northeast seasonal changes in humidity in apartments. In my small experience, neither of my cherry drums have cracked through about 18 winter/summer cycles, but my ash drum and 2 of my 4 oak drums (both with Watco oil finish and no polyurethane) have all cracked in multiple places. Once the oak or ash drums crack due to expansion/contraction related to humidity, and they are fixed with good glue, they tend to never crack again. Oak definitely withstands dents (from drumsticks at rumbas) better than cherry.


Okay Jorge, I'm taking my 9' inch Mahogany "Junior" T. to the rumba tomorrow.. bring your Cherry and we'll meet at high noon :twisted: jejeje~
In 1994 I asked Junior T. to make me a "quinto" based "as close to" the shape of the drum shown in the photo on the cover of the Alfredo Zayas LP "Guaguanco Afro-Cubano": http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_DSoGzKEt12Y/TO403lwbcoI/AAAAAAAAIPc/fu8NGl0rCZY/s1600/Zayas.jpg, but what came out is the 9 inch drum below. I certainly didn't complain that it wasn't the same shape as the drum in the LP covers photo, I love owning a true quinto(size wise).
But I realized that Jay Bereck, Matt Smith and Natalio "Junior" Ruiz.... make shapes that "they know how to make and have been doing so for years", meaning try getting them to deviate from their own drum "shapes and contours" and it just isn't going to happen. But I'm happy as a clam the way my quinto came out.

Natalio "Junior" Ruiz... R.I.P.
Markito
Attachments
9&10½-Juniors.JPG
Jorge, I'm bringing the quinto on the left to the rumba tomorrow... see you at high noon.. at the town square ;)~
Vintage, classic and contemporary Cuban tumbadoras a.k.a. congas and bongoes made in Cuba:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1418352131820747/
User avatar
FidelsEyeglasses
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:29 am
Location: Manhattan, N.Y.C. a.k.a. La Gran Manzana

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby Anonimo » Sun Dec 05, 2010 12:27 pm

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR
Anonimo
 

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby jorge » Sun Dec 05, 2010 1:01 pm

FidelsEyeglasses wrote:Okay Jorge, I'm taking my 9' inch Mahogany "Junior" T. to the rumba tomorrow.. bring your Cherry and we'll meet at high noon :twisted: jejeje~

Dude, don't bring a knife to a gunfight. 9" vs 11" is not a fair match. Seriously, it is hard to compare a 9" quinto with an 11" tres dos. And the rumba starts at 6:30 not high noon. :D
Regarding changing the shape of drums, the shape of the drum is determined mainly by the shape of the staves. The pattern of the stave shape is critical and a tiny change in width at a given height of the drum translates into a much larger change in the diameter of the drum at that height. Predicting how a tiny change in stave shape will translate into a change in shape of the drum is not easy. Hearing the difference between different shape drums is not easy either, especially given differences in skins on those drums, so the shapes of their drums developed over years and changing shapes was not a simple process.
jorge
 
Posts: 1049
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 3:47 am
Location: Teaneck, NJ

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby FidelsEyeglasses » Thu Dec 09, 2010 10:46 am

Re: S.O.S.'s
I found a foto taken in the 90's by me one day when I went out to Jays workshop
in Brooklyn with 'Tito Sandoval' and 'Ivan Ayala'.
I'll never forget every time I left Jay's shop.... I had sawdust on my shoes, in my pockets. jejeje.

'Tito Sandoval' dancing rumba Columbia here:
http://fidelseyeglasses.blogspot.com/2010/12/aurora-gala-music-and-art-performance.html
Attachments
Tito and Jay Bereck '90's.jpg
Tito Sandoval and Jay Bereck 1990's, Brooklyn, N.Y.
The "good stuff" on the left... the 'Econo" models on the right.
User avatar
FidelsEyeglasses
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Wed Jul 30, 2008 2:29 am
Location: Manhattan, N.Y.C. a.k.a. La Gran Manzana

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby s'chopp » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:33 am

Does anybody know Jay's current prices?
:?:
User avatar
s'chopp
 
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:12 pm

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby Anonimo » Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:11 am

POST REMOVED BY THE AUTHOR
Anonimo
 

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby Ernesto Pediangco » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:18 pm

Hey...is good news...but....aside from the great shells, will you be correcting & improving the hard ware flaws ! ? I have repaired Jays drums in the past & all the damages were from hard ware issues, * ~ lugs bending out of alignments & damaging hooks, "V"s popping off the crown from the loosend rivets, warping crowns required straightening before able to properly mount new heads of new skin wires, Alma rings that do not touch each stave securely have cause out of round drum sound edges, drum heads prematurely bottoming out against the drum shell since the crown & shell diameters do not allow more clearances. I have the same critiques of Ritmo studios & Isla drums & others as well. To sum it all up ~ nostalgic old designs represent carry over of design flaws and should be corrected with mechanical engineering concepts & insights applied to drums. The simplistic hard ware designs from by gone eras are not up to par any more. Please do not limit your drums to mediocre hard ware designs ! I know the workmanship is very good...but all the chrome in the world will not improve weak hard wares. Stay in touch...I will love to contribute to your possible refinements. I want to see American made Latin drums exceed Asian imports in every way.
Ernesto Pediangco
 
Posts: 262
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 11:12 am
Location: Seattle, Washington, U.S.A.

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby ABAKUA » Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:06 am

WTF ??? :lol:

Image

Do you feel it necessary to reply for the sake of replying?

Your post makes no sense in relation to the discussion, maybe you were trying to email SOS directly? :?:
User avatar
ABAKUA
Site Admin
 
Posts: 3198
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: Earth

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby onile » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:50 am

Blah! Hahahaha!
Attachments
show_image_615.jpg
Que Nsambi les acutare pa' siempre!
User avatar
onile
 
Posts: 1259
Joined: Sun Sep 11, 2005 5:23 pm
Location: USA

Re: SKIN ON SKIN's Please comment

Postby Tonio » Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:55 am

onile wrote:Blah! Hahahaha!


Stop it Tony, I'm holding my gut now from laughing !! :lol: :wink:

T
User avatar
Tonio
 
Posts: 1210
Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2003 1:59 am
Location: San Diego

PreviousNext

Return to CongaSet and accessories

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests