LP vs. Toca - matador?

[gus]

Hey all, I'm new around here, as well as a new conguero-

I was browsing previous posts and many say that Matadors are a good start for beginners, however I was noticing that the price on the top-o-the-line Toca or Pearl is less than or close to that of the matador, which is supposedly just an intermediate drum. Which is a better choice? I have been playing drumkit for 8 years, and I'm kind of ambitious for delving into the world of hand percussion. Any advice that you guys have would be great.

Adios
-G

[Michael S]

I, too, am a relative newcomer to hand percussion, having played kit for years and switching to congas about three years ago. (May I suggest registering with this forum; it is extremely good and helpful. The site is unmatched for its library of rhythms.) I became annoyed at the prices of LP drums, as compared with other companies, as they all seemed to be mass produced in Thailand, probaby for pennies a day. A major difference in quality among drums is in head selection. The so-called entry level drums usually have thin, inferior heads and non-traditional sizes that will prevent a cost effective change to better sounding heads. I personally don't know why Matadors are so expensive for so-called intermediate level drums. (I do like their lug plate design, though.) But I also think they are good drums.
Other people on this site have spoken highly of the Pearl drums. I play Toca Traditional drums and was amazed at the price. I liked their sound in the store but, lately I have been admitting to myself that I'm not so pleased with them. They do not come with any backing hardware on the lugs and I don't think four bolt lug plates are that much better than two. There are still two bolts in line with the grain. LP's three bolt design (not available on Matadors) is the best, IMHO. My heads do not sit squarely on the bearing edge, but I don't know if this is true for other Toca models or other drum companies. I was not able to take them apart in the store.
And, of course, Poncho Sanchez plays and endorses Remo drums, also less expensive than LP. And RyhthmTech, a respectable company, makes their Alpha series congas and there is also Meinl, played and endorsed by no less than Luis Conte.
Many, many choices. Take your time. A big problem is many stores stock only the entry level and the high end, such as the LP Hidalgo model. That gold hardware looks nice in the store, but believe me, it will not hold up and will start to look like trash when it flakes off.
Also be aware that LP is now owned by the same parent company as Toca: Kaman Music. I'm not saying this is good or bad, just be aware.



Edited By Michael S on Jan. 25 2003 at 09:59

[muddy323]

REMO ELCONQUERO....is the best sounding nicely price fiberglass drum i have played...i dont own any, but a buddy do. They really have crisp high end and fat low end...LP WOOD have great sound also, with a high end price...TOCA heads are cheap or i just dont like the sound they produce....i suggest that you buy the best your money will buy....congas last a long time, if maintained properly... My 1976 GONBOPS will likely out live me ???



Edited By muddy323 on Jan. 26 2003 at 02:33

[Michael S]

Just what the heck is an "intermediate" level drum anyway. This is marketing bullsh*t put out by LP. They'd love to have you think you had to buy three sets of drums from them as you improve your skills. Buy an inexpensive drum if you think there is a chance you might not stick with conga drumming but, otherwise, buy what you like and the best you can reasonably afford The Matador is not an "intermediate" level drum. I've seen pros (by that I mean people who get paid for playing) play them. Orlando Cotto told me Gio played his Matadors on his album. It is a good drum priced in the same ballpark as Pearl Elites and Toca L.E.'s., that's all. LP just claims that they offer better than Matadors. Find your price range and compare sound, features, and looks. Don't try and figure out LP's pricing and marketing strategy; you probably won't like it.

[Juancao]

I have a set of Matador congas and I love them. Even though these are called "intermediate" I would not let that deter you. I think that as you get better you can continue to develop your talent on these congas. I think the same could probably be said of Tocas or Pearl. I would avoid getting the small sets 10 and 11 inch heads as you will probably end up buying another set as your skills expand. One important thing is that you make the conga the conga does not make you.

[Isaac]

Has anyone tried the Pearle Elite series? I've bee carrying my
LP Galaxy fibergalss drums to gigs, and the weight is killing
my back. I'll keep those but I'm ready to switch to a
lighter set. Any opinions or feedback on the Pearls
would be appreciated. From the Pictures, the Tumbadora looks
a little small...

Isaac
in New Jersey

[tamboricua]

Hola Isaac, hope all is well! Give a try to Meinl Marathon tumbadoras. One of my students just got a conga/tumba set for $360.00, very affordable decent drums! Light as a feather and sound great. Check them out!

Hope this helps!

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio
http://www.rhythmweb.com/jorge

[Simon B]

I play on Marathons and can second Jorge's recommendation. Pearl Elites I have played only in a store, but I was really impressed by the sound. I remember thinking that tonally they were quite different to the Marathons (which when tuned you can get to sound pretty near to LP classics), perhaps with a more 'metallic' kind of tone.

Simon B

[LatinSol]

In my opinion most of the LP's are over priced and i much prefer Remo now. Plus Remo heads stand up in most any weather and are crisp to my liking. My friend I feel that when your starting out new to play Congas, Tocas are a pretty good buy to start with. Once you get some feel and expression there are so many great Congas to choose from, but most important just get your start.

[Michael S]

I have to agree with LatinSol; for the money, Toca's are a good way to start. But, unless you have doubts about whether you will continue to play, stay away from the 10 and 11 inch "starter" sets (the type that come with stand included.) The heads usually suck and you'll pay alot trying to get better ones. Toca, while they have some surmountable problems, cost only a little more than most of those starter sets and you'll be able to keep them for much longer. I have the Traditional series and, while I most assuredly will "move up", I will probably keep them as a second set.

[JohnnyConga]

You know with the variety of drums on the market it is still a personal decision as to what drums you like . I have an endorsement with Pearl Elite congas for 6 years now and find them to be just as good as any LP or Toca drums out there. There is also MoPerc congas from Canada that are exceptional hand made congas,but very pricey,There are skin on skin congas made by Jay in Brooklyn NYC,waiting time is about 6 to 7 months for one drum. There are Timba congas from Cali which are very nice also. I do not like the artificial sound of Remo's and they are not made out of fiberglass but a form of fiberwood or some corrugated cardboard or something. In other words "artificial everything" about them. If you like that,more power to ya. There is a whole list of conga drums, but it still boils down to individual choice. So take your time try as many different drums out and then make a choice. Also the Armando Peraza's Valje's are nice too,but also a bit pricey......remember if you buy cheap you get cheap!....At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[JohnnyConga]

Hi Issac...the Pearl Elite tumba is a regular 12 1/4 inch tumbadora. They are acoustically designed and have great volume and also are a bit heavy-Siam Oak wood. Any Oak drums will be heavy. I am now waiting for my New Pearl Elite fiberglass model. As soon as I get them I will give a report about them to this forum. Pearl Artist.....JC JOHNNY CONGA PS check my site at http://www.ShowGigs.com/JohnnyConga........

[congabebe]

I love my Toca Premieres, but... the Fiberskyn heads are not great. Check my earlier posts, major ringing, so I tried different things, ended up busting a head (not intentionally) and got an LP head to use in the meantime. The real skin really helped the sound of the drum and slaps were much easier. But the lip of the conga head sticks out aboue the 'comfort ring' and this can hurt if stuck by your hands. I have to be careful. I have played on cuban rims that I felt safer with.

So, I emailed Toca. They don't make real skin heads or rings for the Premiere series, so you have to go with Evans or Remo nuskin or Remo Fiberskyn. So, Watch out for drums with synthetic heads, All of the Remo's have them that I could find. If you decide to go to real skin on these models that advertise all man made materials, you are going to have rings specially made for them. I love my Remo Djembe, all man made materials, but not sure about the congas. They don't sell them in Memphis. I have been checking Musicians friend sells mostly LP, some Toca, some Remo, but If you check Interstate music, they have more variety and more sizes and colors on their catalog. They carry all the Meinl line. What I would go for is buy the ones that have the real skin, you can always try the synthetic heads if you want, but if you get the congas designed for synthetic heads you can't switch without having to custom make rings for the drums.

I hope this helps for anyone shopping.

Peace,
Congabebe

[120decibels]

Do all toca premiers com with fiberskyn heads?

If you had some skin heads on the permiers, you could soak the rings out. I don't think you can do that with the fiberskyn, though becuase the fiberskyn heads are not "tucked" the way skin heads are.

Zach

[congabebe]

Sorry, I didn't explain that right. By Rings it was the sound of the conga had a bell tone, not the warm hoom of a wood conga. They don't make premounted skin heads for the Premiere series congas, you have to buy synthetic. If you want skin heads, you have to have a 'ring' made by a metal shop that does specialized parts/etc. to wrap the skin on then you put the 'comfort collar' on it, etc. See what I mean. If you purchase congas that have skin on them, chances are if you want to try synthetic heads, you can, so that is what I would recommend for someone buying a new set. The Evans synthetic heads and the Remo Nu skyn, are considered the 'better' synthetic heads. Anyway, I learned the hard why. Johnny is right wood and real skin has a better sound, if you like fiberglass get them with real skin first, that is all I am saying. Thank you for your comments.

Peace,
Congabebe