what did I buy? : ) - tumba & conga or... conga & quinto?

[denardoh]

I bought a set of LP Aspire drums on a rack. I am new to latin (hand) drumming and am excited about getting started... (I play a lot of acoustic set and teach high school marching and private lessons).

Anyhow, I measured the drums and I'm not really sure what sizes I have. The set is advertised as an 10" and 11', but the set I bought measures (diameter of metal rim) 12" and 13"... So the question of the day is: Is what I purchased a tumba and a conga? Or a conga and a quinto?



Edited By denardoh on 1090517572

[yalla]

Hi Denardoh, first of all, drums diameters are always measured at shell "mouth" i.e. where the head lays. Not at the rims.
What you purchased, is a quinto (11") and something similar to a Requinto, speaking in standard measurements terms.
Unfortunately, 10" and 11" are the measures usually provided by almost all manufacturer for their bottom line congas.
In the end, you bought a pair of small conga-like drums, which cannot be told as a "set of congas"...
Sorry to undeceive you... but you will not be able to learn correct techniques with such small diameters...
Get yourself a regular set (11"3/4 and 12"1/2) as soon as you can!

[denardoh]

So these drums are worthless even as "student" models? What about if the drums are 11" and 12"? LP says they have both sets 10/11 and 11/12. (see below) I'll measure them at lunch, and maybe you can comment again.

**UPDATE: yeah, they're 9.5" and 10.5" inside. Crap. LP, lesson #1 - know what you're buying : ) So I got a quinto and an alto-quinto. Great. So maybe someone can suggest my third drum.....? As long as I get good, I'll practice on orange crates**

http://www.lpmusic.com/Product_Showcase/Congas/aspire_wood_conga.html

I paid half of what they list, and nothing for shipping. So I figured they couldn't be that bad. I don't really want to spend 800 bucks to 'get started.' 225 sounded a lot better.

And honestly, I can't imagine why they are that bad for working on technique. As a set player, I know you need to buy something really terrible for it to be absolute crap. I know that these LPs aren't great, but really, you don't think that they'll do for a year or so for practicing heel-toe, slap, and basic grooves? I mean, a lot of players say practice on a table or book if you don't have an instrument...

Anyhow, if others think they are that bad, I could take them back. But I was thinking I'd keep 'em (for the price), and use them for teaching and gigging and stupid stuff. And, for the price, I was thinking of buying a third drum if I saw a nice deal going on. But I didn't know if I had the "tumba" or not - but it doesn't sound like I do.

So really, if I keep these two drums, I'd look out for a nice 'big' drum - 12.5" or what have you, a "tumba" or "tumbadora"... And then I have a 3-piece set for cheap. And as I said, I'm just getting started, and I don't think I'll recognize the sound being that bad because I don't know what to compare it to.

Thanks for a great site and thanks yalla for the reply. I really am excited about learning more, so I hope to become much better educated and have great conversations with this group.

DH



Edited By denardoh on 1090517536

[Mr. Furley]

For starting out cheap you should check out www.Musiciansfriend.com
You can get the full size "LP Performer" conga and tumba. You can get both of them for about $400 total (including free shipping). They're full size, but the hardware is cheaper than on the Matadors. Think about returning the Aspires and at least get something at least as good as the "performers". By the way, Performers are only sold at Musiciansfriend.com and Guitar Center.

[Mr. Furley]

Or...consider just getting one good/great conga...learn on that and save your money to get a good tumba later on...Remember a single conga was all that was originally played when it was added to the conjunto. Someone later added a second one. (was it Patato? anyone know?)

[Firebrand]

Yeah, aspire suck. They won't even give you sound that's good. You'd be better off on orange crates...as you say.

Honestly, I don't know why people go cheap on the issue of congas, even if it is a starter model. If you buy one good conga, it will last you all your life (especially if fiberglass).

I bought TWO different LP conga sets for $650.00 each (three congas in each set). I own an LP Classic trio (quinto, conga, tumbadora) for $650.00, and a LP Patato Fiberglass (quinto, 2 congas) for $650.00.

Where do you get these deals? EBAY. I suggest that for those looking to purchase congas because they have a true commitment to learning congas or performing, don't go cheap, even with Matadors (which have been improving greatly, by the way). Go ahead, find a good trio set at a good price, and save money. In the long run, paying once $650, is better than 300 for a cheap set now, and then $650 or more for a real set later.

[yalla]

Yeah Firebrand, that's it.
Denardoh, the matter when learning the technique is not if you like the sound, but the right hands movement, which cannot be achieved with small diameters...
Moreover, small diameters drums tend to add some bass sounds when playing heel/toe and also open tone, in this way you will never get the feeling you are doing right.
My friend, listen to those guys, return those Aspires and get one 11"3/4 good conga. Practice on it, learn the correct technique and sounds, get new sounds, make the best of it and try to play every rhythm with one single conga. It will take enough time to save money and buy a tumbadora later on.
Mucho achè to you and to everybody out there!

[denardoh]

Hmmmm. Wow. First of all, thanks again for the advice. I feel pretty dumb now because I underestimated all of this. And even though it seems I can't return them, I have learned a valuable lesson. Just thinking, I see my young cousin getting a really cool Christmas present this year : )

Well, so it seems that I’ll start over. I didn't mean to go that cheap either. I just wanted to get started.

Thanks Mr. Furley, firebrand and yallah.

It's pretty embarrassing when you think you know what you are doing...

[congastu]

With all respect to the brothers on the forum, I feel it is dangerous to "judge a book by its cover" or indeed "a drum by its diameter".
Has anyone heard of Roque Junior? He is probably the worlds greatest living tambourim player, and he developed his amazing technique by practising on a bottletop. OK, the diameter and tone are incomparable, but having started on that way, he was UNTOUCHABLE by the time he could afford the "correct" gear.
As far as developing the correct heel-toe motion, your legs, the table top- nearly any hard surface is applicable. As far as slaps and toughening up your hands - try a brick!
As far as tone goes [and this is really what defines quinto from conga and tumba] many, many factors affect this, with diameter only being one. Height, diameter of the BOTTOM, width at the hips, densityand thickness of skin/shell plus material [I prefer wood to fibreglass] , roughness/smoothness of interior- these all effect the sound.
On this basis my answer for any one buying congas is this- do you know what sounds you are after and can you get them? Does the drum sing? Is it well made? Is it large enough to perform the appropiate techniques [this will differ from person to person depending on size of hands, etc] , does it fit your hands like a bass pedal needs to fit the foot like a comfortable shoe.
I agree that there are a lot of dodgy congas out there- usually though its got as much to do with the skin and shell as diameter. My meinl marathons are small [but VERY heavy] but the range of tones including anharmonic and bowing sounds are excellent- plus, Ive got small hands.
Im noticing that when I work with kit drummers [esp. jazz heads], their set ups are getting smaller and smaller as technology advances.Some of the tiny bass drums you see now are lethal! Diameter is certainly a good yardstick [if youll pardon the pun] but its a standardisation through marketing needs rather than a prerequisite to the conga family. Things and diameters will change as congas change [percussion plus do an excellent range of baby congas whose tone is far superior to some larger models; a friend recently purchased a set of 4 bauer congas that sound amazing- the diameters are all small, but as the drums get deeper they become more pregnant in appearance.] Whats the point of having all correct diameters and no quality of sound? Without seeing the drum can we tell someone its not going to do it on the basis of a ruler? More pertinent and useful is to say what you think of the brand, in general [if youve played or heard them].
Sorry for seeming contrary
love and respect, Stu

[Isaac]

To Denardoh, You can keep on of your small drums as a Quinto. Sell one
on ebay, and look for an 11.75" conga and a 12.5" Tumbadora. You can
get one at a time, and use your larger one that you have now as a conga
and add just the 12.5" for now. I import congas from the same manufacturers
as the big companies, but customize them with high quality mule skins.
I've redesigned them to be made with a wider belly, as you see with the Bauer
drums - for a "fatter" sound which is more traditional. If anyone is
interested I can send some jpgs. I've sold 3 sets and a few individual drums,
and have about 7 left, till my next order. This is a totally new brand
not available at Sam Ash, Guitar centers etc. They are mid-ranged in price.

~ ISAAC
Funky Tradition Percussion
Manager / Percussionist / Rep. for JCR
(732) 432-0609
funkytradition@yahoo.com

[Mr. Furley]

Regarding how much you spend "to get started"... If someone is just starting out with playing conga...does it make sense to spend a lot of money on something that could just be a phase?...time will tell if conga playing is something that somebody will stick with after they start. Why drop a load of money on something when you just starting out...I started playing raquetball last year with some buddies....loved it...I wanted to play everyday...I was constantly tempted to go out a get me an expensive raquet (which is cheaper than a cheap conga!)...Man I haven't played raquetball in six months and I am glad I never did get that expensive raquet, as beautiful as it was. Yeah if you got money to throw around, go for it...start with the best. Then again...if you you got a beautiful shapely high quality conga sitting in your living room, it might be very diificult to keep your hands off of it
(####, I have to keep my mediocre conga detuned when I'm not playing it so I can get other work done.)

P.S. I have some very nice expensive fishing rods and reels that I haven't used in a long time if anyone's interested.

[Mr. Furley]

I suggest that for those looking to purchase congas because they have a true commitment to learning congas or performing, don't go cheap, even with Matadors (which have been improving greatly, by the way). Go ahead, find a good trio set at a good price, and save money. In the long run, paying once $650, is better than 300 for a cheap set now, and then $650 or more for a real set later.

What's been the problem with the Matadors? I WAS thinking about getting a Matador Tumba...will I be better served in saving up for the CLASSIC or even another brand?



Edited By Mr. Furley on 1090962554

[CongaCaja]

Speaking as someone who owns some matadors, they are a good drums to learn on but there are some minor issues.

First of all, the skins are not very good. The skins are not consistent in quality, require quite lots of time to "break in" and tend to have some bright overtones that make them hard to tune (especially for a beginner).

Second, some people don't like the rims. These "Soft Strike" rims were the original "Comfort Curve" rims but LP has renamed them after they came up with "Comfort Curve II". Some congueros think that the Soft Strike (aka original Comfort Curve) sit too high above the ring of the skin. In other words, the profile was so high that interfered with playing technique.

Personally, I don't have a problem with the rims, but I did replace my skins.

Another drum that I suggest that you consider the Meinl Marathon Exclusives. I have Meinl bongos, I have played other people's Meinl congas and played with them in a local store. They seem like a reasonably priced alternative to Matador. Here's the web page.
http://www.meinl.de/percussions/perc_2_8_6.html
Btw, I think that the Meinls are now available in more finishes than you see on the link above.

Finally, I am happy with my Matador drums, but I think I would be just as happy with the Meinl's which are the same price (or a bit less).

cjk



Edited By CongaCaja on 1091059942