Who's the best teacher of this forum - teaching a slap

[door]

hey guys,

I' play now 10 years slaps and i'm proud on my speed and sound and technique ....but

Now I'm a teacher and have more then 30 students a week, but it's so hard to explain how you slam your first slap on a conga. For me it's just a feeling, I can't play a bad slap.
I can let them see it, and hear it, but now I want to give my pupils in 3 sentences the right words that they know how to play a slap. How do you describe that feeling from your hand on the conga and the move you make.

who can answer me in a few sentences.
I know it's difficult, but please ,try..

greetz
Door

http://www.dendoor.tk

[Raymond]

No, I am not the best teacher but let me try to help you...

A slap is a slap...You are going to have to explain to them that in that hit they have to give a "whip", but with force, in the head of the conga...(I am assuming you know the notation of open, palm, finger slap, muffled, etc). At the beginning they will a hard time but with demostration and listening to other they will try harder to get the correct sound...(It takes awhile for some)...

Another thing, you are going to have to break it down for them..step by step so they could see it...(Independence is very important here to be able to follow through everything).

Although I hated it, one of my teachers told me that the best way to do something is to do it slow...The slower the better....however, most human beings we want to start doing write from the beginning and is hard to do it slow...Your students might have to do it slow at the beginning, perhaps sacrificing that good slap, but eventually it will help them achieve..

Remember, playing congas is the combinantion and synchronization of hands and sounds and it takes awhile to dominate, especially those that do not have the exposure to the sound all the time..(For us latinos is easier since we see and listen conga players all the time)...Again, teach them to do it slow and that will help them...

I hope it helps! (Others most likely follow)!

Saludos!



Edited By Raymond on 1126815586

[JohnR]

I am a student, not a teacher, but as a student (intermediate), I found that my slaps starting coming out when I quit trying so hard. It seems as though the more you concentrate and the harder you try to get a good slap, the more difficult it is. You need to just "let go" and let it come out by itself.

Another thing that seemed to help me was when I discovered, contrary to many teacher's opinions, that there is more than one way to get a slap. Many teachers and pros who have developed strong control over a good slap start believing that their technique is the one and only way to do it.

This can be extremely frustrating to a student who may never be able to duplicate a particular Conguero's slap. Everyone is unique both physically and mentally, so what works for one person may not work for another. That is, in fact, the lure of hand drumming in contrast to sticks. Everyone has their own unique sound.

Can you imagine if Pavarotti insisted that his voice was the one and only correct voice to try to emulate? We would not have very many vocalists then.

If you really want to help your students excel, I would suggest analyzing some slap techniques of other congueros so you can offer a variety of techniques for the students to chose from, rather than just your own.



Edited By JohnR on 1127087812

[JohnnyConga]

Before u can actually start teaching you first need a "method" of how to teach someone, and that is well after YOU have honed your skills as a conga drummer.....there are at least 3 different slaps I teach..."open" "closed" and the "bata" slap on the top end of the head with the left hand. It's what I call the "Patato" slap. So I hope you know how to do these before u can even show someone how to do it....PS THERE IS NO BEST TEACHER HERE, we all teach in one way or another...."JC" Johnny Conga.....

[door]

hey JC, I know about methode and that 's one of the reasons why I'm asking this on other percussion players. I' m working on my at this moment 53 pages counting methode and I ' m searching for good info about teaching slaps. And of course there is no best teacher, but It was quiet a joke to create reaction on this big forum with many interesting questions. I know the different slap technics.
JohnR is also right. a student of me has hands who are double size claws of mine, his slaps would absolutely sound very different. the suggestions from raymond I knew from practising classical music.


thancks guys

all other tips are also welcome about teaching percussion.

[JohnnyConga]

Ok without photos use ur minds eye...Okay?....

take ur left hand..put it flat on the drum, a slight inward turn, almost diagonal..put a "bit" of pressure on the head with the left hand...take the right hand ,raising from the wrist, not the arm,"throw" ur fingertips into the area the lenght of where ur left thumb is,striking "inwards",but not overextended,just below "center line" of the conga head. Now the other thing is to get a real good slap , u need callouse buildup in the finger tips, so if u dont get a slap right away, u just got to keep working it, also no pain no gain.. Here is a little test ...put ur hands face up towards u and with your fingers try and slap ur palm...that is the idea...get it?...this is just one way ..now an "open" slap is a whole nother thing..."JC" Johnny Conga.....

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... Valley_Gig

[onile]

Oye JC! Chico, como que tu tienes cincuenta anos, chacho te vez como todavia te piden ID!
:laugh:

Te estas cuidando bien mi hermano!

Suave!
Onile!

[TampabayRey]

Hi, I know that I'm still green at playing and learning to play this great instrument. Slow and easy is the way to learn proper. Relaxing and not rushing & understanding the concept behind every notation and hand techniques. #1 key to success practice and more practice. Just my 2 cents..

[onile]

If I may......! Con respeto a todos los mayores!

I have seen many congueros with slaps of different calibre, some using the open slap (my favorite and the one I use most), which is delivered primarily in the area the open tone is on the drum. I personally have relatively large hands and like using all of the realestate of my drums (use all the head space)

There are some drummers with smaller hands, and they use this really interesting slap which normally is done closer to the rim of the drum. Sort of like a "tapao", but without the other hand pinching the drum. And then of course, like JC illustrated, there is the slap which uses both hands in concert of one another. All of these are important to add to ones' arsenal of techniques.

What I have come to learn and respect are the different levels of abilities in students/players. Having said this, I like to take it slow with some of my students and have them place their hands on the drum in a relaxed position, so that the "heel" is resting on the drum, and the knuckles are at about a 30 degree angle. I then have them pick their "fingers" up, keeping the "heel" planted on the drum, then bringing the "fingers" down on the drum. This is my way of sensitizing them to the feel of their "fingertips" and the sound produced by them. The energy for this technique initially is generated from the knuckes, they gradually apply more force, but not extreme force, as it's coming from the knucke area and there is only so much that can come from that.

As they do this over a period of time (depending on how much they practice), they then get to hear the potential open slap that they can execute. The next step is to have them bring their hands back slowly while doing this exercise, to familarize themselves with the sounds of the slap in relation to the head, basically.........lookin' for the "sweetspot" It is very important to point out that this technique is gradually executed by using the motion of the wrists, not the elbow (meaning, the forearm), and that the angle of the knuckles in the attack becomes less and less until almost being flat on the skin. Extra attention needs to be paid on this critical point, if not, the natural instinct is to slam the fingers down with as much force in order to get the "loudest" sound, slap or tone. It's been pointed out in other discussions and bears repeating here! Teach your students the correct technique and avoid needless pain and injury later.

As time goes, they wind up learning the "open" slap, however like JC pointed out, it's different when you can visually show someone.

here I am again, keeping it simple!

Humildemente!
Onile!



Edited By onile on 1127494329

[rumbaman]

How is every one today . I'm also a student but i have been playing for a good 5 years . From my experience, i can tell you that i was taught following JC's techniques . The slap consist of three distinct sounds , Open , Closed ,and bata stylye in wich the heel is at the middle of the drum head . You as an instructor have to teach your students what these notes sound like .This way they can replicate the proper notes that are being executed . They have to listen and practice .


good luck rumbaman

[onile]

Alafia Rumbaman!
I hope that you are well and in an abundance of blessings my friend! How is your arm? I'm glad to see you posting again!

You are absolutley correct, "listen and practice". Amazingly, it is quite common for individuals today to want to "be where you are" (in terms of level of expertise), and not care about "how you get there" as JC pointed out, this is a very vitally important aspect of learning. I think that we all agree on this point.

Heck! I still remember the feeling of despair when I saw Giovanni come on the scene, all my years of playing, and Bam! here he is raising the bar to a totally different level.
I guess we are charged with a life of continual learning, and evloving our techniques, that to get complascent with our skills will leave us open for a shock someday. As I read on another post, there are youth in Cuba, Puerto Rico, and I'm sure wherever else drummers are located, who are doing some incredible stuff. "Fiesta de Tambores" for example, I know a couple of folks have posted comments about 'Los Ibeji Junior', MAN! I still love it!

Anyway, I believe we do agree on practice and listen being a critical aspect of learning.

Many blessings!
Onile



Edited By onile on 1127573566

[Firebrand]

I'd say to produce slap, they have to do these three things:

1. Unlike the open tone, with flat hand coming down on the conga head (with fingers about 3-4 inches into the head), you'd want them to stay close the edge. Some people don't do this, and produce slaps, but I usually move my hand closer to the edge for a slap. Not totally off, but about 1/2 to 3/4 the distance into the center of the head of what I would do for open tone.

2. They MUST cup their hand slightly. tell them to produce a 120-150 degree angle between the middle of your palm, the tip of your fingers, and the rest of your hand toward your wrist. A normal open tone should be done with 170-180 degree angle of your hand (imagine your fingers outstretched, forming a straight line from fingers to wrist is 180 degree, and work "down" from that, 0 degrees being your fingers touching the bottom of the palm of your hand), while the slap needs the hand to be slightly cupped.

3. Finally, as others have pointed out, the slap hit should be done by imaging a whip crack's motion. Which is striking at the head, but pulling back a little when the hit hits. When open tones are done, the middle to lower part of your fingers produce the sound. With slaps, the sound should come from the whipping motion of the cupped hand, striking mostly with the middle to top part of your fingers. When you hit a good slap, your fingertips should feel the impact.

Once they understand the cupped and whipping nature of the slap, and the nature of its degrees, they will find the most efficient "cupped degree" that will produce slaps. With practice, they will be able to start landing slaps ocassionally, and zero in on what amount of degree cupping, whipping motion, distance from the edge of the head, and pressure (both from the striking hand, for OPEN SLAPS, and pressure from the other hand, for CLOSED SLAPS) is necessary. As with brass players intuitively finding out the correct positioning, necessary tightness of lips, and blowing pressure needed to produce better tone on their instruments, with practice, an aspiring conguero can begin to detect the correct requirements for a good slap. As a teacher, these three basics (I think) should be inculcated in the student, and the student should be encouraged to continue to try land slaps consistently, until the slaps become ever more "snappy" and the student becomes more adept at landing slaps at will.

It took me about 3 months of bi to tri-daily practice to start landing slaps consistently, although I think a year more will have me landing the cracking snaps of a Giovanni Hidalgo, but, a student will be encouraged when they start slapping quite nicely within 2 to 3 months.

[El Boni]

When I did some studying in Santiago (de Cuba) last year, they described two types of slap played in the open tone position and using one hand:

-A closed slap, where the fingers remain on the head just long enough to stop any post-hit ringing ('chapa presionado'). But not so long that you can't play rolls with this technique.

-Open slap, which should produce an almost metallic sound, as the head rings ('chapa libre')

From this I found that what I thought had been my open slap for 10 years, was in fact more akin to the closed slap (though somewhere in between).
I teach a few students these days, and find the 'metalico' tone description very useful in getting them to produce the right sound.

[these were in addition to the muffled slap (with other hand pressing head, eg during marcha), and what people here seem to be calling 'bata slap']

my two things.

B

[JohnnyConga]

The Bata slap or "Patato" slap as I like to call it takes place at the top center of the conga and the last 3 fingers of the left hand strike the top center to achieve what would be the equivalent to a slap on the "itotele"(enu) side of the drum. "JC" Johnny Conga... check out where Patato has his left hand ..that is the strike zone for the "Patato" slap...

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... tato_2.jpg

[ralph]

The Bata slap or "Patato" slap as I like to call it takes place at the top center of the conga and the last 3 fingers of the left hand strike the top center to achieve what would be the equivalent to a slap on the "itotele"(enu) side of the drum.

Would that be on the enu of the itotele or the cha cha?