What way is faster ?

[soungalo]

Hi there .
I was wondering ... which technique would give me a faster roll ?
The two options are :
Heel - toes - heel - toes
R R L L

heel - heel - toes - toes
R L R L

Well ... what do you say ?

[zaragemca]

amazing Soungalo,how do you came out with that,the second one involved little more coordination of the brain-modules,and also with the second one you are not using the initial signal of the motion(to the ligaments), to facilitate the continuation of the pattern.



Edited By zaragemca on 1105402666

[L.Fonseca]

Hi
For what i can see from the videos of Gio(in slow motion obviously) , he gets blistering fast speeds with your second choice, the one zaragemca says it is harder to coordenate.
Seeya

[zaragemca]

Well I got blistering fast speed with the first one,as you could see every teacher have its owned librito.



Edited By zaragemca on 1105415675

[Tonio]

Hi there .
I was wondering ... which technique would give me a faster roll ?
The two options are :
Heel - toes - heel - toes
R R L L

heel - heel - toes - toes
R L R L

Well ... what do you say ?

The one you are more agle to perform!! whcih ever one you play most is teh one that will be faster!! Of course you should practice the syncopation you are weak at, to get it up to par with your strength!!:cool:

T



Edited By Tonio on 1105421171

[sabrosona]

Hehee..this is funny...

I always do my double stroke rolls the second way (the normal way confuses me) and I've always concidered it to be a cheat!!! :p Fact is, it doesn' t sound the same .. the second one sounds like galloping more than it sounds like a roll...

So I would say that the "right" way to do it is (to me) the hard way H-T-H-T which actually sounds like a double stroke, but you can always reverse it to H-H-T-T while you're playing and give your audience something to wonder about ...

[L.Fonseca]

Yeah sabrosa I noticed that to.
Let me argue why I am saying the second way is faster.
When you do a one hand #### toe movement, you can get very high speed and it its a continous movement, that way you can play ONE 2 3 4 TWO... the first way it´s like a double stroke, you play ONE 2 .. .. TWO 2 .. .. , so what I am saying is that to maximize that movement´s speed, you should use movement number two and intercalate with the other hand. And the reason why it does not sound very much like a roll, I think it is the fact that it is done not thinking as a countinous movement but as very fast 4 stroke roll, that is, the fastest whay to get four strokes in one time is almost like a double stroke whit one hand flamming the other, you drop both hands at the same time, with a tiny different in height and both hands doing a double stroke and you get a really fast four strokes. So what I think Gio does, his doing that so fast that is hard to notice that it is not a continous movement but very fast consequent "4 stroke rolls". And that is why the second technic doesnt seems very clean even with Gio doing it because, like Zaragemca said:
"with the second one you are not using the initial signal of the motion(to the ligaments), to facilitate the continuation of the pattern."

I suppose it is very hard to understand what i wrote:) it is very confusing. Sabrosa if you understand what i wrote, see if you can explain it better.
This topic is extremely technical:).. nice
L.Fonseca

[smidogg]

I agree that the second technique is faster and more natural and is the one I use when doing a heel tip roll. This was the way that I was taught, although I have practiced both ways extensively. However I encourage everyone to learn as many heel tip variations as possible as the odder combinations can come in quite handy in some transitions and inprovisation set ups.

One of my Favorites is
o H T O H T o H T O H T
R L L R R R L L L R R R

Really cool on three congas if you alternate the lower case o's between a drum on the left and on the right and do all the H and T on the drum in the middle
Have fun

[zaragemca]

The things which some brother are missing is the fact that after the development of that technique,it comes the second part which consisted in keeping one hand doing that rolls(with the first technique),on top of one conga,and articulating other syncopation,and ghost-notes with the other hand on the others,thats the purpose of dominating the roll with individual hand.Everything have its purpose.



Edited By zaragemca on 1105499993

[Tonio]

You got it Z!!

do the roll with left hand and add open note(mufle, slap whatever) with right etc etc (if your right handed-hey but you should be able to do it vise versa too).
T

[sabrosona]

Fon, I totally agree. And that's why I call the H-H-T-T roll a cheat!! It's not a clean roll... but it's SO much easier to do...lol

Zaragemca, you're right; everything has it's purpose. The best is to learn both techniques and improvise on them, work on patterns and hand indipendance (now that's the real pain in the @#!*)..

Fon, about the second technique, it depends on how u do it.. when it comes to me personally, every hit is loud and clear - doesn't resemble a flam at all, and it gallops because the H stroke is "bassy" and the T is light.. so u get bass-bass-light-light (like the horse's 2 first steps when galloping, that have a stronger impact because they are the ones getting it off the ground, and then the two lighter ones following)...

But if your wrists aren't loose enough, there is a big chance u won't give every stroke at it's time, not ending up with 4 equal strokes (u end up with flam-looking strokes instead)..

Does any of this make sense?:blush:

[pidoca]

Gday, guys.

From a cuban traditional point of view I have to agree withthe above comments that HT HT ... is the authentic cuban way of doing it, keeping in mind that its musical ancestry probably had nt come up with that technique.

But back to the question at hand; which way is fast.

If we take a leaf out of the GLADSTONE method, (from rudimental druming) RR LL RR LL is scientifically faster when applied withthe correct technique. this is due to the hand hitting the drum then rebounding and going down again through muscle control and gravity, then the other hand. This is my interpertation of his technique when applied to the congas. Most people find it easier to complete the RL RL due to it being the way mmost things are done in society, but it is not neccessaryly the most effeciente manner.

Pidoca
http://www.cabritamusic.com

[Mr. NoChops]

with the second one you are not using the initial signal of the motion(to the ligaments), to facilitate the continuation of the pattern.

*sniffs the air* *looks around*

Mmmh, I just love the smell of horsepoop in the morning. Oh, it's Gerry Zaragemca...never mind then.

[Ivan]

Hey All,

I am surprised that JC hasn't jumped in here - yet... Since i began studying with JC he has shared with me a variation to working on double stroke rolls. I hope I don't get hung for sharing this, but I am pretty sure he wouldn't mind... :;):

An excercise that works both your brain and you physically is the 5 stroke roll. it can start either way, but here's what I mean:

RR LL R | LL RR L
Slap Slap
or open or open

Start out slow and work to go faster... You'll be a Gio, Ritchie or Changuito roller sooner than you think.

All hits can be practiced with open tones, slaps, etc... I am still getting the hang of this - so I am currently doing all open tones until the 5th hit. The 5th hit I switch between an open tone or slap.

I apologize if I repeated above what anyone already advised.

Mr. NoChops - com'on bro... Please for the sake of all of us drop it. I can understand if you are frustrated with someone's teaching style, but I personally don't want to see negativity on this forum anymore. ???

Gracias en Paz,

[JohnnyConga]

Hi Ivan...I purpously sometimes just hang in the background. There are plenty of informed people here and I also learn by reading others, responses. As far as Mr. NoChops....must be an appropiate name....continues to berate Mr. Zaragemca for the way he expresses himself, you can leave this forum. It's about who what where when why and how about the Drum, here at CongaPlace. not a group therapy session. I do not find you qualified to talk about others...MR. NO CHOPS......There are enough problems in the freakin world where this type of pettiness is boring and not conducive to learning, and only negates the progress of mankind. "Ignorance, is Dangerous"..........peace..."JC" Johnny Conga.... what have u done for your fellow man lately?....