Adapting patterns for hand to hand

[JohnnyConga]

Untaltumbador...I am sorry to disagree with you . I can play "exactly" like Mongo or Ray Baretto, because I "studied" and "learned" their "styles" of playing. I made it a point to study Mongo, Ray, Armando, Tata, and Gio,not that I'm even close to Gio, but I'm from the first school of the "ol skool" so "tradition" was a major part of my learning experience. My first teacher Hank Fields who studied under Armando Peraza, used to tell me "well if you can play what they can play ,how good are YOU?....the first solo I ever 'copped" on congas, lick for lick was "My Sound" from Mongos Watermelon Man album. Once I copped it I had the confidence that I was good enough on the conga to continue my studies and eventually decide to make a career out of it, now into my 40th year as a performer. I also must tell you that there is a "definate" wrong way to play. Try turning the clave around with your tumbao and play a 3/2 tumbao in a 2/3 tune and you'll see what I mean. That is part of the "tradition" of playing. Everything has a right way and a wrong way.....If I am a copy of Mongo then so be it, cause I consider him to be one of the most proficient conga players of ALL time, and who better to emulate, than him?...But I still maintain my "own style" which is a combination of all the conga drummers I have ever studied:
Mongo-Ray B-Armando-Tata-Patato-Daniel Ponce-and Giovanni. Remember all of them(except Gio) came first so everything after them is a "copy" of them in one way or another.....Also there are conga drummers that can play "exactly' like some others, and there is nothing wrong in that. It's what u bring to the table as an individual that may set u apart from the others. Once again if a am a "copy" of these great drummers, then I am one of the best "imitators" around. Because that is what we do we "imitate" who we admire......."JC" Johnny Conga..... :;):

[ALKEBULAN]

Personally, I think that it is about finding your voice through one's influences...Like JC my first solo was copped from Mongo...But I would never want to be a copy of Mongo...His story is different than mine...One of my teachers always says now that you know and feel the rhythm, take it to the next level...creativity is key in all music, ya dig...

[JohnnyConga]

Ok ..what I am saying is that yes I can play like Mongo but I am not a copy, I would say Poncho Sanchez is a "copy", with out a doubt. What my "creativity" has done is take from all the drummers I have studied and "incorporate" their "styles" with mine, which has it's own identity. IF you ever heard me you would hear what I mean. Sax players studied Coltrane, not to be Coltrane, but to learn about how he played what he played, you just can't duplicate the intensity, which comes from within and is individual to itself. My 2 congas....."JC" Johnny Conga..... :;):

[yoni]

Hi all!

It's been a while, but I'm at a friend's computer and this is a pretty verbal thread, and I'm feeling verbose myself at the moment, so here goes...

Burke, I think your first post touched on a very interesting point...
I can play tumbao traditionally ("heel-toe"), but early on in the 70's I also adapted tumbao to the hand-to-hand way that you mentioned. Just came to me that way. For the Latin rhythms the heel-toe way sounds more right to me, but for African, funky and jazz (swing, be-bop) all the heel-toe stuff goes out the window. For me, the hand to hand way feels and sounds better for these rhythms, which you might say have a looser feel than many of the Latin rhythms.

Playing hand-to-hand for funk and jazz may have to do with why I became a preferred jazz conguero in parts of the US, Caribbean and in Israel. No one else I knew of was doing it then... Burke, you're the first guy I heard of who also fell upon this by himself. Congrats.

Tradition is great. So is expanding on it.

All the best,

Yonatan Bar Rashi

[burke]

Wow, what a suprise!. I've been away from the forum for bit (busy buying a house and other madness) and figured the 'hand to hand' thread had run it's course.

Thanks for the comments Yonatan. I've been to your profile page and basically (with no 'aw shucks' false modesty)compared to you (and pretty much everyone else in those pages) I'm an enthusiastic amateur. However, I did get a little buzz reading that besides you...

Surely not eh?

[yoni]

Surely not eh?

First I heard of... surely others have played that way; I hear there's nothing new under the sun, but it was fun to hear of that parallel.

Thanks for the compliment. Aw shucks. Keep on drummin'.



Edited By yoni on 1100413398

[untaltumbador]

Burke how are you? Am just dropping a line to find out how are you coming along with your right/wrong way of doing things. I have also taken time to reflect on how a thing develop from its opposite, for instance, logic from illogic, truth from error and so forth. My issue is with the slap tone. Which is the correct way? Do I judge it by its universal sound quality or the way I like it and how I like my hand position to be when I play the slap? I am interested in what I consider a general economy and balance of hand movement. Well I am off the object which is to find out if you have reach a satisfactory conclusion to your concern.
Take care
Untal

[zaragemca]

Greeting to JC, and all the brothers of in conga,I would like to espressed that what is colled tradition didn't took place easy, it came with the understanding of the articulation of the music which is played,which involve the timing,the pulse,what the bass is doing,what the others percussion instruments are doing(bongos,timbales,drum,clave,bells,etc),becouse the congero is not in the group to duplicate what somebody else is doing,also involved how are you going to obtain the best articulation of the differents strokes which a congero would have to develop to obtain differents effects out of the instrument,how the congero dominate the syncopation,contra-syncopation and articulation of the parameters involved in playing a rhythms,the syncronization and of limbs(arms).This is the foundation of what is called tradition.And with this foundation a congero could take the knowlege to any musical stage(rhythms).Now why I could said that, in the house where I was born (La Havana),the rumberos would come every weekend to jam and articulate those features which I explain before.Also I did learn with my ancestors the basic and meaning of the African Patterns which they brought from Africa,taking that to the musical notation in percussion school which is called drumming,( for better understanding of the mathematical measures involved in the reproduction of those percussion pattern in the sheet of music).Plus I was promoting and playing Rock and Jazz since the late 60's.Jazz is not new to cuban percussionist neither, the jazz have been played in cuba since the 1900's and those cuban percussionist which came to the U.S. in the 40's were growing with the rest of the music which was played in the U.S. and were invited to play and recording of that music so they knew what was going on.So when somebody is listening to them they are listening to percussionists which know how to articulate the percussion in those rhythms.Gerry Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1102792502

[burke]

Greetings untaltumbador,

I would say not so much 'concern', more like curious (well,... maybe a little concerned). Anyhow, I have very much enjoyed the various opinions and reply's and will likely stay course ie. keep putting practice time in playing trad style, but also working the hand to hand thingy that feels sooooo much more natural and comfy to me.

On the slap thing have you checked out the 'open slaps' posting ... much good info/suggestions there. I've started modifying mine (sad little pats on the drum that they are) by moving more to the centre of the drum and was big-time mostly happily suprized!

That is what is so very cool about this site for hobbists like me - such good advice. It's like a free clinic every week.

Cheers from chilly Nova Scotia