in or out of clave

[vaconguero]

Hey guys,

On the subject of clave, I can say one thing - if you haven't yet, read C. K. Ladzekpo's article on polyrhythms. It deals explicitly with African 6/8 clave, but all of this transfers more or less directly to Cuban 4/4. The article is long, and it took me about three reads, numberless (and continuing) practice sessions, and lots of strange looks for clicking my teeth rhythmically while I'm walking. This might be a little bit off topic for a discussion about son clave, but to me this (and David Peñalosa's old "Dr Clave" column) really got to the heart of it and eventually resolved alot of questions for me.

CK Ladzekpo's article

Lee

PS - from the link I gave, click on the "Rhythmic Principles" button on the left

PPS - by the way, does anyone know if Dr Clave is still around on the web (it's no longer at Bembe records)? I've got a copy on my computer, but I hesitate to post it.



Edited By vaconguero on 1087622155

[congastu]

Nice site, Vaconguero!

[zaragemca]

The best for everyone,I just have to clarify,(I would be hitting myself against the wall if letting this go),soloing, either with timbales,or congas have to continually be in and out of clave in order to establish a good pattern of syncopation,of variety,of differents parameters of time signatures,which show that you dominate what you are doing.Otherways it would be a solo for Rockmusic.



Edited By zaragemca on 1089160484

[JohnR]

Maybe it's because I am at at lower level with Latin rhythms, but it seems that no one explained the clave basics very well here.

Clave can refer to the pair of sticks sometimes used to play it or it can refer to the actual clave pattern itself, which can also be played by other instruments such as the timbales, or by none, in which case the pattern is guided by certain accents and feel of the rhythm.

One of the confusing aspects of understanding the concept is that nearly everyone talks about 2-3 or 3-2 clave as though that defines clave. There are two falacies in that notion. One is the idea that 3-2 and 2-3 are completely different. The numbers pertain to a two measure pattern that reflects the number of clave accents in each. 3-2 means 3 clave accents in the first measure and 2 in the second measure. The only difference in the two is which measure you start and end on, but either way you continuously loop the pattern throughout the song. (It is sometimes reversed during the song, but not often).

The second falacy is that "the 3-2 or 2-3" is "the clave". This nomenclature is generally used to descibe the most commonly used "son" clave found in many Latin rhythms. You might think of it as being equivalent in usage to the accents on 2 and 4 found in the vast majority of rock, pop, and many other genres. The clave pattern, however, can vary according to the particular rhythm, and it does in fact vary in many latin rhythms, such as the rhumba clave that was mentioned.

The rhythm that helped me the most to get the feel of this so-called 2-3 clave that is most common is the Songo. The first version by Daniel Sanchez right here on this site (The Congabook) gives you a real good feel for the son clave with the slap accent on 2and on the 3 side. To change from 3-2 to 2-3, just reverse the order of the two measures.

The pattern for the common son clave is 2, 3 (on the 2 side) 1, 2and, 4 (on the 3 side).

Hope this helps.

[congastu]

Nice one for breaking that down, John. I would just like to add that when people refer to 2-3 or 3-2, it is usually in the context of the son clave. However, the other common forms [notably rumba and six-eight] are also divided the same way- three beats one bar, two in the other.

[congastu]

PS: and the bossa clave too!

[congastu]

Thats just got me thinking- its very rare that I hear rumba in 2-3. Perhaps thats because coming in on the three side adds to the sense of syncopation that brings such wonderful colours to the rumba forms. Any thoughts?
Peace and love stu

[zaragemca]

I think I already explained in one of the post the concept of the creation of the clave,in a musical group were notbody is keeping the 'parametric clave', all instruments have to find their paramerer, in the 4/4,or 2/4 time signature in which the music is written.And again the clave was incorporated from the Yambu-Guaguanco,then at some point in the music an for some groups it was replaced with the bells pattern(used in the Son music),the bell was also used for the timing of the Cha-cha-cha,Mambo,etc.,replacing the 'clave'.



Edited By zaragemca on 1089837620

[Mr. Furley]

It may be a little misleading to say that the clave switches directions...the clave remains the same throughout. What sometimes happens is that a section of the song may contain an odd number of measures, in which case the following section will begin on the 2nd half of the clave...Hence, it seems as if the clave was switched...an illusion. Later on another section may have an odd number of measures and the clave will seem to switch back after that section... The clave is consistent...everything else is structured around it.