"Touches"

[alabubba]

I am finding it very difficult to do a light "touch" or "ghost" note as part of getting the right groove with a hand-to-hand pattern - mine attempts to do this (touch) are too loud, more like a lighter open tone than a touch. Are there any tips that might lend help to achieving a light touch? Thanks!

[blas]

try to master the basic notes of the rhythm without the light touches first, after time they will fill in naturally, a little here , a little there. just keep playing. it can take some time, but if you try to force them in there they will sound too hard like you described.

also try relaxing your hands, which is easier to do if your hands are playing something they know very well!

[alabubba]

Thanks, that makes sense. I was getting tensed up as I was trying to play/control them. I will do as you say.

[windhorse]

I'd like to add something I've felt is particularly helpful at "practice time" which can be ANYWHERE at ANYTIME.
Go ahead and try something in all the ways you can think of, like being tense, hard and determined for a while. Then relax, and try just slowly moving through whatever you are practicing with the form you know is necessary. Super slowly, like several minutes just moving down to the drum and up again,,, but super perfect form. Then go back to hard and fast, because it's good to have this intensity for biting off large clumps of knowledge and skill. And then again, go back to slow and focused form - good for muscle memory. This rotational procedure took years off of my learning curve/time.
I hope this spreads.. and that it works for you..

Dave

[alabubba]

I'd like to add something I've felt is particularly helpful at "practice time" ...

What you have said is very interesting, and seems to have parallels with some of the techniques that I have used (successfully) in training athletes to accelerate their achievement of superior performance beyond their peers. For example, it is common for athletes reach plateaus in their training; to break them loose from such a stage it is important to change their routine and provide new and different stimuli to their muscles.

[windhorse]

drummer cross-training

[burke]

I'm honestly not sure why touches or ghost notes are even done in the first place. I think I've read they are a time keeping device but there are lots of rthymes that that have 8 or quarter note spaces we all play without the use of touches to tell us where we are.

As always ... keen to be enlightened!

Darrell

[windhorse]

Darrell, Obviously there are certain parts we'll play where there's no need for ghost notes. It's just too straight forward, and you would never consider ghosting a 16th note between them. For instance when you do a right - right. like muff - tone, or bass - tone with the same hand. In this case, it's difficult to screw up the timing. But, when you're playing a fairly complex part that is sided. So, on one side of clave it'll play something that's different than the other side. like the Salidor/Tumba part in Guaguanco or Guarapangueo. Now, it sure helps to have some ghost notes to keep you in the right place. Also, when left and right handing are switching where they are in relation to the downbeat.
Here's a real-life example of where placing some ghost notes helped me in a rhythm. I was playing the Salidor on Guaguanco too squarly according to my teacher. He said, "you need to round it out. The rounded off nature of Quanguanco is felt and generated in the low tones of the Salidor." So, he demonstrated what he meant, and then I tried it to no avail. It wasn't until later, that I found that I could include a bass-touch system that is almost the 6/8 tumbao, and that enabled me to play the Salidor with the correct 6/8-like feel, and it was those ghost notes that got me there.
In reality, this happens over and over again with almost every rhythm. You'll find that you aren't quite getting a part to sound exactly right. Then, you go back to square one and place some ghost notes in with the right timing or feel, and then you're back where you need to be.
They can be the key to playing certain parts the way they need to be.
Another point is that in leads, solos, and support variations, you can find your way into pick-up notes, and special off-beat notes by playing a new "re-voicing" (Mike Spiro's favorite term) where you were playing a ghost note. So, if you learned without ghost notes, then you may find particular embellishments very difficult, where they may otherwise have been a simple re-voicing.

I'm honestly not sure why touches or ghost notes are even done in the first place. I think I've read they are a time keeping device but there are lots of rthymes that that have 8 or quarter note spaces we all play without the use of touches to tell us where we are.
Darrell

[burke]

Thanks Dave - a very good answer. Now that you mention it (and I give it a bit more thought) I know I've at times noticed unconsious/unasked for lite touches in certain entering into certain rthymes.

I'm working away at vol 2 of Tomas Cruz's book and this is the first time I've every seen a ghost called for - I'll play around (trying it with and without) and see what happens

[TONE74]

Yeah, my first encounter was with the Iyesa' rhythm on Tomas cruz vol 2 at first it was hard. In my opinion what makes it hard is that its not a common stroke so its something new but the more you do it the easier it gets, just like any of the other strokes, bass, tips, slaps etc. Just practice that section of the pattern over and over and after you have it ingrained do the rest of the pattern.

[Tone]

Great thread. So nice and subtle.
Just an anecdote.
I am learning from (among many others) Alexandre Pires at the moment. He is a great player who plays Candomble adaptations on two congas to amazing effect. He has one of the cleanest and sharpest sound I have ever heard. He is also more of a player than a teacher, if you see what I mean. He hasn't broken it all down and he is (blissfully) unaware of a lot of the things he does. He plays it(fast) and it is up to you to pick it up. I couldn't quite get the feel of some his beats no matter how hard I tried and then I realised he was doing very light touches.
So I pointed it to him, and he was like "wow you are very perceptive, you see all these little things that I don't even know I am doing". He was amazed and I guess nobody had ever showed it to him. And of course as soon as you use those ghosts notes it changes absolutely every thing. It is particularly true of Brazilian music where the swing is so important and subtle at the same time.
When you see a beat on paper or someone breaks it down slowly they will oftenly not show or play the ghost notes. But it is where the feel/groove lies, hidden away! Even if you don't play the ghost note it has to exist in your mind.
I found that at first it is good to intentionally play the ghosts notes to really get the feel for the beat, and then the more you play, the ghosts notes should get lighter until they are maybe only in your head. You can't be shure anymore...

In the Brazilian atabaque (angola and ketu style) technique, drummers use a special type of ghost notes which directly contributes to the feel. They do a bounce with the same hand. For example an open tone with the left hand followed by a touch with the left hand. It is surprisingly effective and fast! For example try : open left-touch left- open right in cycle you will get a very different feel that you would get from doing alternate hands. I think it is because it naturally puts the accents in a different way and I guess maybe also some micro timing displacement. Anyway that is getting to analytical, just try it... Also it is a mechanically softer touch.

So to go back to the original question, and to go along with the already excellent answers, a way to play lighter touch is for the touch to a be consequence rather than a cause. I mean rather than play the actual touch, sing (or feel) the feel in your head (not the pattern) and the touch will come out where needed. And as Windhorse brilliantly mentioned you can then decide to accent that moment and you have yourself a great variation!

Um abraço

[Mano Teo]

I'm honestly not sure why touches or ghost notes are even done in the first place. I think I've read they are a time keeping device but there are lots of rthymes that that have 8 or quarter note spaces we all play without the use of touches to tell us where we are.

Besides helping me keep better time when playing a syncopated part in a percussion ensemble, it seems that touches help to fill out the groove when playing hand-to-hand. At church or while jamming with friends, I'm usually playing the only percussion instrument and even though my touches are barely audible, the groove feels richer and more textured and the other musicians seem to feel it too--like Tone says, it seems to be where the feel or groove is hidden away.

As for learning to play with touches, try playing the rhythm ridiculously slowly with touches, and gradually increasing the tempo. When I started playing, I used a lot of touches (because I was so bad at keeping time ) and played really slowly, so it has become easy to use them at all but the fastest tempos, even though I use them less now.

[JConga]

Guys "touches' are gonna happen because your hands should not stop moving when playing....they are the "in between" holes of the patterns we play on the conga drum...remember EVERY stroke of your hands are accounted for, so if a 'touch' happens it's because it's suppossed to. It is not something u actually should or have to practice, it will come as you get better, as you learn to "hear" every stroke of your hands.....Johnny Conga...

[pavloconga]

I'm honestly not sure why touches or ghost notes are even done in the first place. I think I've read they are a time keeping device but there are lots of rthymes that that have 8 or quarter note spaces we all play without the use of touches to tell us where we are.

As always ... keen to be enlightened!

Darrell

Hi Darrell,
So much depends on the context of playing as to whether touches or ghost notes will be heard or even necessary.
So, as a musician, one needs to be flexible and adapt your playing to suit the situation and acoustics.
If for example, you play acoustically in a small group then they certainly will be heard and they really provide a lot of 'flavour and spice' for the rhythm.
On the other hand, if you are playing in a 15 piece band with amplified drum kit, bass and horns then they're probably not going to be heard, but may still be necessary for you to keep your timing and feel.

Another aspect is tempo. When I studied in Ghana, Africa I studied and sat in with several large drum ensembles and I learned a lot of rhythms for the conga-like kpanlogo drums that use a lot of touches, taps and ghost notes (e.g. Otofo, Kpacha, Ogé, Silimba etc). If the tempo was slower the touches were usually played. However if the song arrangement called for a very fast tempo, I was shown ways of playing the same rhythm in an abbreviated form - that is, without the ghost notes. This enabled me to play the same rhythm very fast without struggling to fit in all the ghost notes.

As far as learning the touches and ghost notes my teacher always said, "Don't worry too much about them, they will come on their own."
I didn't - and they did!
regards
Pavlo

[Tone]

very interesting point from pavlo. I am familiar with those abreviated versions in Brazilian drumming as well, it can go stupidely fast like barravento.
At faster tempo the feel get squished anyway, the subtelties of hovering between binary and ternary feel get narrowed to the point of disappearing altogether and that is also why you don't need the ghosts any more.

Did you study in Kokrobite? My trip to Ghana is one of the best memory of my life. What a country! What a people!