crossed rumba

[percomat]

hello, and happy easter, i have a question for this forum, its actually something out of the -se monta or not- discussion, because i still haven`t found rumbas that are played crossed? it was said in the former discussion that many big rumberos played the open tresdos strokes on the twoside of the clave before, my impression now is that one "should" play it on the other. i`m very intersted in this process, that for me seems to be stricter frames concerning the clave, is it a new tendency? ???
peace out

[Fish]

I can't speak for recent trends or anything but in my mind its the "crossedness" of the rhythm and the interplay between the clave and the drums that generates the excitement and without that (ie. playing it the way that seems to make more "sense") I think it would lose something.

[Raymond]

Beware that since the "clave" is just two bars, certains things could be played "apparently" out of clave but feel comfortable like they are clave. (Hard to explain for me in notation. For me is just the "feel").

Another thing to watch is the "clave rumba" that gives that syncopated swing that sometimes feels like in you are in the "other side of the clave." I've been to rumbas and certain people are just in the "edge" of falling out of clave and is due to the "feel" of the clave rumba.

Also, be aware there are certain patterns that are comfortable in both sides of the clave.

Interesting point you are bringing, I will check it out.

Saludos!

[Johnny Conga]

There are recordings even today that I have heard where the guaguanco is played on the 2 side rather than the 3 side. In 3/2 clave the guaguanco is on the 3 side. In the 60's it was on the 2 side for awhile, then along came Los Munequitos and turned everybody's head. I have many albums where the clave sounds "crossed". sometimes it is due to the fact that just maybe the guy on clave was on the wrong side and in the studio nobody caught it or even noticed it or even cared at the moment. These are all possibility's. Like in Timba, the clave is hard to find at times cause the arrangements are in a constant change in rhythm, so at times it may sound like it's crossed but it's not. It takes a "trained" ear to really pick it out. Being that the Cubans live and eat clave they can do whatever they want with it, as they do.....JC JOHNNY CONGA... :;):

[percomat]

thanks for your comments. i actually have a good story on this point, from the percuba competition in november 2003, maybe it was october or december. anyway, in the tumbadoras competition the congueros was showing their skills on quinto, doing a straight guaguanco havanero. but one of the band members, which was supporting the competers with the frames of guaguanco, was substitutet with another guy. he was playing two-tree, so the open strokes on tresdos followed the first two beats in the tree side. the referees (among them jaroldy, chuchos conguero), the first row in the middle seats in teatro nacional all raised and showed the se monta (by the way, is this the correct spelling?) sign, the v side upside down with the other hand in between, and finally the poor guy playing clave had to leave the band..
???

[Johnny Conga]

I have never heard of this competition on Congas/tumbadoras. This is done in Cuba? Under what circumstances and why? A Conga competition , now tha'ts what I'd like to see!..... JC JOHNNY CONGA....

[percomat]

its a competition named percuba, the international drum festival in havana. you can compete on tumbadoras, bongo, timbales, bata and drumset. this year they also had great concerts, klimax (the drummer here seemed to be the central figure og the festival last year), maracas, yoruba andabo and frijoles negros together, los munequitos and many more..

[Johnny Conga]

Can anyone from outside Cuba compete in PerCuba? I owould love to this competition. Any possible video around about it?...As a teacher it raises my curiosity on their approach to critiquing the competition and what they use as categories in their judgement. Ex. The fastest hands. The most rudiments, or the best version of rumba on 3 congas...anything like that? What do you get if your the best? What is their rating system?.......JC JOHNNY CONGA.....

[percomat]

i think anyone can compete, but the foreigners can not win i think, however they cant participate. the winners last year got instruments or equipment, it was something for the top tree, and the kids, some of them very young, got something too. the referees desides whos the best ones, it was five of them or something, including jaroldy, a couple of familliar looking faces and probably the klimax-drummer, i never can remember his name. what the criterias is i dont know. but they competed in la marcha on two congas, a 6/8 pattern and quinto. then you see whos the better players. its also rounds before the final, it last a week..

[tamboricua]

Hi JC,

In Puerto Rico we have a very similar thing going on every summer on the last Sunday of Las Fiestas Patronales de Loíza, and it's open to anyone. I believe is called Competencia de Percusión Afroantillana. Among the categories they judge are: Best quinto player and tumbador in rumba, best primo player in Bomba, best requinto in Plena, best bongó solo, best chekere solo, etc., among the judges you can find Cachete, Anthony Carrillo, Mañengue, Mañenguito, Modesto Cepeda, and many others.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio



Edited By tamboricua on 1082381553

[Simon B]

Klimax drummer is the great Giraldo Piloto!

Simon B

[CongaCaja]

I accidentally attended some of this competion last November. The Fiesta del Tambor was a bit hard to follow because schedules were very...pliable. Some events of the festival didn't occur at the scheduled time...if at all! More than once, I travel across Havana to find that the forum, class or concert was suddenly cancelled.

But, I am told that this is common in there.

Anyway, I stumbled upon the drumset competition. The participants were mostly teenage (or younger) drummers...in other words, no adult professionals. Interesting to watching for a while but it like many such drumset competitions that you would see in the USA...young guys with showing off their promising chops but not much with respect to dynamics, phrasing or playing with the ensemble (there was a house combo that accompanied the participants).

Perhaps the conga competition was better.

Regarding the festival in general, by far the highlight was the performance of Los Munequitos. Wow! Not only great drumming but some amazing dancers as well. #2 highlight was the Afro Cuba de Matanzas performance (the guy on the tumba was a monster).

Btw, Giraldo Piloto is a very nice guy as well as a great kit drummer

cjk



Edited By CongaCaja on 1082570366

[Juzzi]

Hey guys.
I'm a bit late in your conversation. Sorry for that. If you are still interested in the Percuba happening, I can tell you more about it soon. The winner of Percuba 2003 was Eliel Lazo. He will be playing with our band for some time and we'll have a workshop with him in two weeks or so. Maybe some of you already know him?

http://www.slagtojctr.dk/nyheder/default.asp?page=nyheder&id=78
http://www.allaboutjazz.com/gallery/llinhardt_percuba.htm

-J

[windhorse]

Something that happens to me all the time when I'm playing Salidor on Guaguanco is that I go into a muffed roll or do something fancy like a momentary change in handing,, then I come back into the regular tumbao pattern and find that I'm now on the "wrong" side of clave.
I'll be hitting the bass in the second half of clave, so then I've got to do two sets of basses on both halves to get back to the bass hitting on the second strike of clave - the bomba spot.
Seems like a nice variation is to hit a few bombas on both sides of clave, and looks like "hey, I meant to do that!"



Anyone else found something interesting to do on both sides of clave?