Heel-Toe Playing - How loud should it be?

[JohnnyConga]

WELCOME LARRY D...our "family' is growing here, that's great. CongaBebe what a great experience huh? Nothing like first hand experience and being able to see how it's really done. You mention the word "edge" Yea that is something you can't give anybody,you either have it or not. I have seen great players in my time and some without the "edge" or "fire" as I like to call it. to play the Drum meanss you have to really "hit it". You don';t "tap' a conga drum you "hit it". that is where the "edge" comes in. I know some people say it hurts and stuff. And it does for sure in the beginning. but once you pass the callous phase and your hands are a little tougher it gets easier.Tradition is something you pick up on the islands PR or Cuba. Or even in NYCity where I'm form. I would consider myself a "traditionalist", and there is nothing wrong with it. Like I like to say.. "It may be "old skool" but my skool ain't closed ,it's still open".so tradition is important when it comes to playing the drum.......At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA....MONGO LIVES!....

[Michael S]

Congabebe, you are right; the heel-toe of the tumbao is not the focal point of the rhythm. But if it wasn't "meant to be heard", why play it at all? Any half-competent drummer could simply hit the 2 and the 4& all night long and let it go at that. As Laurent Lamy stated, it is like the ride cymbal (or hi-hat) for the kit drummer. They also are not the focal point; however, they do add to the overall mix of the sound, regardless of how subtle they may be. Sure as the shaker or tambourine does. The slap on two compliments the snare drum, either with it or as sort of a ghost note to add syncopation. The open tones function much as the tom-toms, adding the melodic aspect to the rhythm.

[KingKongas]

This is by FAR the BEST site for drummers that I have come across...

You have the seasoned players as well as the beginners on this site. I especially appreciate the advice from the vets. But I also appreciate the posts from the drummers, like myself, who are in the "middle" of their experiences and perhaps want more out of their drumming.

Let it all hang out here... Somebody knows how you feel...

To get back on point for the heel-toe thing... My feeling is that the sound of the heel-toe depends on the rhythm you are playing and how strong you are. The tumbao with a full band behind you will probably never hear you're heel-toe... whereas a smaller jazz group might appreciate those "extra hits"...

[Michael S]

...which goes back to my original point that the heel-toe should be as loud as you want it to be for any given situation.

[RitmoBoricua]

Hi, you can hear the left hand shuffle in many situations like when the bass take a solo also another good example is Eddie Montalvo's tumbao at the beginning of "Pedro Navaja" you can hear the left and right hand tones perfectly. Take Care

[congabebe]

I got to ask. I played 2 nights, 9 to 1, I play alot of stuff with my percussion toys and not just congas, so I get a break now and then to lay back. But do 'real' conga players keep that 'edge' all night? I talked to another percussionist that has been playing set and congas around town for years and he said that the latin style is great but he said that most bands will over power you and you have to concentrate on being heard. He doesn't play latin style, he uses rudiments and voicing between the different drums. He sat in on congas and he didn't have the edge like the guy from Pueto Rico, but it still sounded good. I know there has been discussion on whether or not to use mallets on congas etc, and it is not considered 'good' technique or good for the drum. But my question is, most of my practice is not on hitting the drum as hard as I can, which is what I think I need to do to get that edge. Any comments? I am thinking of getting rudiments to study to help with hand cordination and independence. Should I make my practice based on being loud? Cause to me that is where that edge is, it completely changes the sound of the drum.

Thanks for all your comments, this is wonderful.

Peace,
Congabebe

[JohnnyConga]

Hi CongaBeBe...at the risk of sounding a bit sexist, the conga drum is a "macho" instrument. Not that woman can't hit. There is Sheila E, a perfect example of a woman that "hits" the drum and doesn't "tap" the drum. Jody Linscott ,who was a student of mine and went on to play with Elton John and Eric Clapton, she can "hit it". Myra Casales in NYCity, and there are other "pro's that "hit it". so what you saw from the Puerto Rican brother was "puro macho" on how to "attack" the drum. The edge is, either you have it or you don't. And there are a lot of Conga drummers that have to go to NYCity to find their "edge",it's where it comes from outside of Cuba. I'm partial to the City cause I'm from the Bronx. I would also like to add that coming from the Bronx there was a LOT of competition amongst the bands,because it was common to go to a club and there would be anywhere from 2 to 5 bands performing throughout the night,and if you wanted to be a hit you had to "play your ass off" which creates THE "edge"......At your Service...JC JOHNNY CONGA...

[RayBoogie]

JC, is 100% correct! Being from NY, you have so many good congueros that you really have to standout, to get all the good gig's. In a way the beauty of having so many good congueros is seeing the LIVE performances. The bad part is tooooooo much competition.

[120decibels]

I know that I'm a little of topic here, but I'm compelled to write something about the issue of playing loud versus having "the Edge". In my humble opinion, some of the best players, are not the ones who are the loudest, but the ones who could groove all night and knew exactly when to play out (play loud). I've found the players who focused a lot of time and energy on being able to play loud to be clumsy when it comes to time, balance with other musicians, dynamics, and the texture of the music.

Focus on balance when you play. Play loud when the tune calls for it. Most importantly (in my opinion), be able to move in and out of different rhythms, riffs and the form of the tunes all night without any hicups.

In a lot of situations that I've played in and seen the congas and bongos are mic'ed up, so you don't have to work near as hard to be heard over the horns, keys, guitar, etc.

The players who have really made names for themselves can do it all. They groove all night long and they can pull out some of the hardest hitting stuff you've ever heard when it's appropriate. That is something to aspire to. That, in my opinion, is "the Edge".


My $0.02,

Zach

[JohnnyConga]

120 your synopsis is 100% correct. that is the "theory" of playing that you have just described. I know about "pacing' one's self when it comes to playing I have done 2 hour concerts when you really have to know your strengths and limitations also. It is a "science" when it comes to playing and you have to have all the "formulas" prepared for the proper results. Your on the right track!.....At your Service. JC JOHNNY CONGA.........MONGO LIVES!

[RitmoBoricua]

Hi, to me you have to learn what to play and what not to play, it's real important. As we build-up our percussive skills vocabulary we learn also how to apply them effectively in the right context . The only way we achieve this is thru trial and error, that's the way we get that ever-so-important Experience and Wisdom! To me that's what really set apart or give the edge to the masters besides Passion

[muddy323]

i use heel toe for timing...sometime i drop the heel part cause its not needed to hang in the cut of a song...heel toe dont fit so well in neo-soul...being in tune is most important in neo-soul...its always good to learn as many styles as possible...you never know where they will fit.

[congabebe]

Thank you conga brothers for all your comments. I have really enjoyed all the comments. I think practice ... practice is in order, no surprize there. Thank you for all or your help.

Peace,
Congabebe

[KingKongas]

Hey CongaBebe-
Here's something to practice with... instead of doing a heel-toe.... do a slap-slap or a slap-bass or a bass-bass or a tone-tone or a tone-slap or a tone-bass... you get the picture??? Insert a different combination exactly where you find yourself in a heel-toe combo. It's gotta be quick and good though. I try all kinds of different combos for a heel-toe... but definitely get the basic rhythm down first no matter what it is....

to get back to the earlier question, i.e. how loud should the heel-toe be??? If you practice in a strong way you should be able to incorporate all kinds of combinations of "tones-slaps-bass" for a heel-toe combination and "sound" pretty good at it.