Yoruba BATA

[JohnnyConga]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCv03EolhMQ

This is a great video, this is the REAL DEAL of BATA Drumming.. from the source..... listen closely for "clave' in the drumming and then a section that sounds very close to rumba....Johnny Conga....

[zaragenca]

Well I'm sorry JC,but it is nothing serious this is one of those group form in Africa with the specific purpose of doing shows, they mada a mistake of confusing the talking drum with the Djum/Djum, and mentioning a dancing for Shango...As I said before in my article.'Oyo by Zaragemca', Shango was not a Yoruba deidy in Yorubaland,he was incorporated into the Yoruba galaxy absolutely in Cuba,the same than the other Orichas from the Araras..Dr. Zaragemca

[Facundo]

Well I'm sorry JC,but it is nothing serious this is one of those group form in Africa with the specific purpose of doing shows, they mada a mistake of confusing the talking drum with the Djum/Djum, and mentioning a dancing for Shango...As I said before in my article.'Oyo by Zaragemca', Shango was not a Yoruba deidy in Yorubaland,he was incorporated into the Yoruba galaxy absolutely in Cuba,the same than the other Orichas from the Araras..Dr. Zaragemca

Z,

I beg to differ with you. This is an important video and does show aspects of the bata tradition in Nigeria. This is not just a performance group for floor shows and laymen exhibitions. More over you saying they made a mistake playing dun dun with bata is a gross error. I know personally a close friend and drummer who went to Oyo to be initiated into Anya and his experience there was a real eye opener with regard to the role of Anya,(Ayan in Nigeria), plays in many aspects of drumming. Just like the bata have a secret inside that make them Ayan, true dun dun also have a secret that ties them with Ayan as well.

On the issue of Shango (Chango) being an Orisha in Cuba only and not a diety in Nigeria; that is absolutely wrong! He (Shango) has been a diety in Yoruba land for centuries! His shrines are well documented by Bascom and others. Shango's main shrine is alive and well today in Oyo.

By the way, your articles on Oyo were the poorest examples of scholarship I have seen to date on the culture of the Yoruba.

Facundo

[ABAKUA]

Thankyou Facundo, I was about to post something similar, but you saved me the trouble and put it very well.
There is no point attempting to debate a topic with someone who has their head in the sand. Its like banging your head against a brick wall.

Thanks for sharing that clip JC.



Edited By ABAKUA on 1192869985

[davidpenalosa]

I concur with Facundo. This is traditional contemporary African bata. The African and Cuban versions of bata have significantly diverged since they were first separated. Both systems are the "REAL DEAL" within the context of their own cultures though.

Interestingly, I am not aware of the Cuban mode of enu-chacha opposition in Africa bata.
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1192902752

[JohnnyConga]

The sacred Bata drums are the body of Ayan, similar to what the "sopera" is to the other Orisha. Ayan is a female Orisha who is able to speak the language of the Egun, Orisha and the Olodumare known as "oro", or "the manipulation of sound and vibration". The shasha (small head) is the "butt" while the large head (Enu) is said to be the "mouth". The Ashe released by this Orisha is extremely powerful. The drums are not played by or danced to by those who have not been initiated or presented to her Ashe/power. Ilu Ayan are draped, when in public, with beaded Bante drapery and are only touched directly by Omo Ayan. They are fed blood, like Orisha, and are not played by women due to the menstrual cycle. Another tool of invocation is the Shaworo. These are two belts of bells placed around each head of the Iya (largest) drum. They sound when hit or shaken. The Bata, along with the Shaworo, Ashere (rattle), Agogo (bell), Akpwon (lead singer) and Ankori (coro) are said to bring Orisha to mount initiates to take part in our Bembe celebrations. Olu Ayan (keepers of Ayan Bata) are usually Olu Osain and usually well versed in the secrets of herbal potency.

Bata Drums/Ilu Ayan "in action" (Toque: Titi Laro & Meta: Shango)

Zaragemca would you also disagree with this above?....it almost seems to me your making all this so called "history" up?.........Johnny Conga....

[vinnieL]

Connnnoooo! JC!

[TONE74]

While you guys are on this topic I would like to ask a question. During a guiro what is the tumbador playing?

[davidpenalosa]

During a guiro what is the tumbador playing?

Guiro is essentially a chekere adaptation of the bembe system. Accordingly, when congas are used to accompany chekeres, they play bembe parts.

It is common practice nowadays for a single drum only(the caja: lead part) to play with chekeres. This modern style of caja has adapted elements of rumba quinto and abakua bonko, making the phrases contra-clave, rather than in the traditional con-clave mode. Also, the caja used to be played on a tumba, whereas now, it's played on a quinto.

For examples of the older con-clave approach, I recomend Francisco Agabella's playing on the late 50's
recordings "Afro-Roots" (Mongo Santamaria) and "Top Percussion" (Tito Puente). No doubt some other congaboard members will have some other recomendations too.

For an example of the new style I recomend the cut "Agbe" from the CD "Drum Jam", featuring Miguel Bernal on caja. This recording is unique because there are just three chekeres, a bell and a drum, no singing. You can hear the drum very clearly. You can download it from itunes.
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1192986405

[TONE74]

Thanks David for clearing that up for me. I thought it was a fixed rhythm that was used but now I see that its open to improvisation. I'm digging the drum jam cd ( checking out the samples). Do you know of any other cds that have different rhythms on them like this one. I want something authentic that I can play along to. I have Afro Roots for a really long time now.
While I'm at it I would like to ask another question. In rumba columbia I have noticed more than once that a guaguanco pattern is used. Is this the same pattern but played in 6/8 at a fast speed or what. For example on Afro roots track 21 " columbia".
I'm off topic here but I figure I have your attention on this thread so might as well take advantage. Peace

[ralph]

Thats probably a misnomer since, columbia and guaguanco and completely different rhythms...they play different roles and the dances are different...this may have been an example of a jiribilla type guaguanco that was labeled columbia? David?

[davidpenalosa]

Yeah, that columbia on "Afro-Roots" has always puzzled me. I'm not sure what's up with that one.

Back then, they played it a little differently. The two supportive drums played in 6/8, while the cascara was in 4/4. Nowadays the cascara is in 6/8, usually with the 6/8 bell. Grupo Afrocuba sometimes uses both the 6/8 bell and 4/4 cascara simultaneously.

As far as a rhythm being "fixed", I'm not sure what you mean. Each lead drum part has a specific vocabulary. Quinto is no exception, but it does have a very flexible vocabulary.

As far as recordings of rhythms without songs, there are various cuts to be found. Tito Puente's "In Percussion" is a great example, although they are drum descargas, mostly based on band rhythms. The CD/booklet "Understanding Latin Rhythms" by LP has some good examples, but the quaility of the recording is not the greatest. It sounds like they copied a defective cassette tape and i think that's exactly what they did.
-David



Edited By davidpenalosa on 1193067177

[guarachon63]

For examples of the older con-clave approach, I recomend Francisco Agabella's playing on the late 50's
recordings "Afro-Roots" (Mongo Santamaria) and "Top Percussion" (Tito Puente). No doubt some other congaboard members will have some other recomendations too.

My favorite guiro recordings are from the Antologia de La Musica Afrocubana, specifically the tracks by the group "Agrupación de Güiros El Niño de Atocha." There are also some tracks by them from the Smithsonian/Folkways "Sacred Rhythms of Cuba" CD.

You can also see them here:

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While I'm at it I would like to ask another question. In rumba columbia I have noticed more than once that a guaguanco pattern is used. Is this the same pattern but played in 6/8 at a fast speed or what. For example on Afro roots track 21 " columbia".

Thats probably a misnomer since, columbia and guaguanco and completely different rhythms...they play different roles and the dances are different...this may have been an example of a jiribilla type guaguanco that was labeled columbia?

Many times I've heard columbias that sound (to me anyway) very close to guaguancó in 6/8. I'm sure David and other will be able to elaborate on any relationship(s) between the two.

One other thing I would suggest we keep in mind when evaluating things like this is that there is not only the rhythm to consider but also the song. If this track featured a singer singing a columbia, then I would call it a columbia, even if the drummers were (as it seems they are) just playing a fast guaguancó.

But there is no "song," really, just an "ah-ah" coro, so I have to think calling this track a columbia is an artifact of an earlier time of looser terminology and/or standards in liner notes/record keeping...

saludos
barry

[TONE74]

By fixed I meant a certain rhythm that is specific to it. Not the best way to put it but thats what came to mind.
About the columbia, I have heard it by others ( once or twice ) played with that guaguanco pattern too. I cant recall by who right now but I'm sure I have. It has been labeled columbia also but then you hear that havana guaguanco open tones at a fast speed.
Thanks for the suggestions.

[Facundo]

Thats probably a misnomer since, columbia and guaguanco and completely different rhythms...they play different roles and the dances are different...this may have been an example of a jiribilla type guaguanco that was labeled columbia? David?

Ralph,

Yes, columbia and quaquanco are different rhythms. However, we must remember that the interpretations of them are often regional. That is, quaguanco is played differently in Havana and Mantanzas. There is often differences from neighborhood to neighborhood. Recently, I learned a columbia that is played in Santiago de Cuba. Also, you will hear the quinto being played sometimes in 6 and other times in 4 which can add to the confusion for someone trying to learn these rhythms. I think the thing we have to remember is that the indigenous cultural elements of rumba, be they guanaco or columbia, are not static elements. They are subject to change under the hands, interpretation and feelings of those playing them and dancing them. It is all part of a cultural construct that is always adapting to the internal experiences of those involved.

Just to bring this all full circle, the above noted point is at the core of my disagreement with Z. Yoruba is a tonal language and among the Yoruba; the drums speak the language. That being the case it is an easy step for Yoruba drummers to use dun dun drums in consort with bata because they both speak the language. Add the mystery of Ayan inside the dun dun drums and there is no ceremonial conflict. Bata took a different evolution in Cuba as the Yoruba language fell out of use as an everyday means of verbal communication. We need not look at the differences as one being right and the other wrong without looking at the entire cultural construct of their respective use. The result is a natural evolution in both Africa and Cuba. This provides an extremely nutrias well for us, who are leaning, to drink from in our studies of the works of these masters.

Facundo