Questions for All Bata Players - Bata Questions

[Berimbau]

Dear Bataleros,
In the past few decades I have noticed a rather remarkable culture
change in the attitudes and perceptions of bata drummers and their
communities in the U.S. It is my hope that some of the bataleros
posting on this site will feel comfortable enough to answer some
simple questions for social scientific purposes. My anthropological
inquiries here are of a relativistic nature, so let me assure all that
the sensitive questions which I'm posting here are asked in a
completely non-judgemental manner.
1.) How many of you bataleros do NOT practice Santeria or other Orisha
veneration? That is, do you play the drum purely for musical resaons
rather than spiritual ones?
2.) How many of you bataleros play regularly in local Santeria or
other Orisha veneration ceremonies? In what U.S. cities/towns do they
take place?
3.) What are the various opinions in your community regarding bata
drums? Do people in your community generally differentiate between
tambores de fundamento and drums without Ana?
4.) Finally, for ALL bataleros, what resistance, if any, have you
experienced in playing bata drums outside of the spiritual context? If
there have been any objections, what exactly are they?
In closing, please let me thank all those who choose to participate in
advance.


Saludos,


Berimbau

[Obi]

Although I practice Orisa traditions, I play Bata for musical purpose

I do play for spiritual purposes but, in the privacy of my own home.

There is no "community", where I live, therefore there is no resistance. At the same time, I would not be welcomed to play at an Orisa function elsewhere. Not only are these drummers trained in specific toques (rudiments/ rhythms), they are trained to work together & practice together.

Also, my Bata Iya Ilu is an Nigerian drum, not Cuban, Its sound is deeper and more resonant and would not match the pitches of the Cuban ensemble. ???

My training is different as well, in the sense that the rhythms I have learned are also Nigerian and not Cuban. There are some similarities in the rhythms but not many, due mostly to the regional evolutions of playing styles.

Nigerian traditions don't call for the "oru seco" because the regions in which Bata are played don't necessarily propitiate the same orisa, unlike the Cuban traditions which propitiate a larger number of orisa in one community.

There is also more freedom to improvise in Yoruba styles & in some cases more (or less) drums are incorporated. ???

Obi

[zaragemca]

brother Berimbau,I did see your question and I could not speak for anybody else in this subject ,but I would like to clear something, which is the rule in this subject.The category of 'Bataleros' is only given to the individuals which had gone through the right process to become one,and given the confirmation of the 'Orishas',the rest are percussionists which like to play bata,which at that point they could buy any of those sold by music comp., for musical purpose....Knowing to play some of the patterns,does n't make a person automatically a 'Batalero',in first place becouse remembering a pattern,or a musical phrase does n't mean his understanding what's going on. I have witnessed myself in ceremonies,( when I was younger), the 'Orishas' refusing to 'ok' somebody as 'Batalero', or to take the instrument from somebody for the reason which "they know'.The same thing goes for the incorporation of a 'new-Bata-drum...To Obi the percutive evolution which took place in relation to this Yoruba's pattern in Cuba was the natural process which started in Nigeria thousands of years ago,becouse we know that those drums did n't get those shaped forms in one day, neither those multi-percussion patterns were set up together in one day,everything have evolved, and the 'Orishas themselves are the one which provided to this practicioners in Cuba with the wisdom to create, the same way that it was provided in Nigeria...And their (my ancestors) did it in a harder condition than what the originators faced in Nigeria,becouse after been brought as slaves, and in a diferent environment,habitat,rule,and status,they have to recreate everything,(it is not that a blessing?)..Dr.Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1110307888

[Tonio]

I would have to agree with Z on this.
I did learn from a Batalero before he was ordained(not sure if that is the correct term) in Cuba.
There are "Bataleros" that have not been initiated per se, but is capable of the various toques. And anywhere in between.

I had to quit playing(learning)-well maybe I didn't have to , but thought it would be best because I had resistance that Santeria is a cult, which I guess it is in one form or another. PLus they thought it was devil worship. Much non educated opinions of course.I read alot about Santeria etc. Even my teacher was into it to a degree, but just enought to be initiated to be a Batalero. But I didn't quit due to other people's opinions, but maybe the difference in that you need 3 players to actually perform a toque, to its fullness.
I do ocassionally play on congas in a similar pattern.

Interesting thread Berimbau.**edit forgot add, that there must be community because there is a Botanica, and quite a few "players"., but cannot say to what degree for I do not participate.

T



Edited By Tonio on 1110237784

[zaragemca]

Saludos Tonio,I know that the concept of this practice been a 'cult' have been out there in the market for some time,but the reality is that the Yoruba's is a civilization which at one point was denied the credit for all the teaching and knowledge they shared with africans and the westerns, (when they arrived to Africa)... The two biggest compendiums of herbal-medicine are the one taken from the chinese and the one put it together (through these practicioners) by Lydia Cabrera in Cuba,.plus they have knowledge of astrology,agriculture,medicine,'the most advanced sculpture practice,metal, and wood-craftmanship,...also as it is even today's, they had the most sophisticated drumming patterns in Africa. They were the first one protesting the conversion into slaves, out of the others 'tribes-men' for which they went to talk with the Muslims and the Egiptians,also the first one telling the others tribes the intention of the Romans in conquering Africa.And never wanted to create and empire out of somebody's territory,they only set-up kindom-district for the better organization and distribution of work and needed thing within the civilization and out of it,..like trades,(commerce).



Edited By zaragemca on 1110308552

[ABAKUA]

wrong thread.
edit



Edited By ABAKUA on 1114795841

[Colacao]

Hi all,

Holla Berimbau, (como sabes mi ingles es malo)

For the moment I'm learning the rhythms, and I read about the Santeria. I start only some month ago.

The reasons are numerous,

First because I like percussion (10 years drumset and maybe 6 years congas). 16 years drumming. Not 30 or 40 years like JC and Zaragemca, but I know a little and I think I love drumming.

I'm learning with a good teacher, I feel very confortable, good vibe, good energy. We play every Sunday 2 or 3 hours and I think my teacher is happy to show us the rhythms.

I don't do Orisha veneration and I don't go in Santeria local. Because there isn't in my neiberhood.
I have a personal ritual when I play percussion not specially batà.

I have deep respect for this religion.

The spirituality is something very personal. Life style etc...

Spirtuality is the roots of many music style like, classical and liturgical songs, negro spiritual, gospel, soul music, R&B, reggae etc...

I agree too with Doctor Z

[changolaye]

well i think u should have a understanding of the orisha tradition and culture to play the bata drums either for musical or religious pupouses cuz the rythims r talking calling on these spirits these orishas and so on so u have 2 have some wat of a understanding 2 deal with the sircumstances

[CIMARRON]

Just the son of SHango and Ozain cant play BATA!!...the rest PROFANADORES!!!

[JohnnyConga]

Ok ..we will have no machismo or discrimnation here...Woman CAN PLAY!....ever hear of Sheila Escovedo?....Cookie Lopez? Malena?.......and there are at least 2 ALL FEMALE Bata groups in Cuba, at this time.....and WE ALL KNOW why they can't play ceremonies, so this is not new news.....we like to have "positive" information on this forum.....this is a forum to "LEARN" from, not to "attack" people and their views...Gracias..."JC" Johnny Conga/Team leader....

[JohnnyConga]

Bienvenido Changolaye!....tell us about urself and how long have u been playing and where are u from?....."JC" Johnny Conga...

Attachment: http://mycongaplace.com/forum/eng/uploa ... _Gig_2.jpg

[caballoballo]

Johnny,

This 2 Guys Cimarron an Muñequito are going into every topic not to offer good opinions but to critique and ofend other members.Read every post where they have answer. I think the moderator on this forum should blockade those 2 . We here respect each other,we are not here to atack others member in any way.

[onile]

¡Vaya Mis Hermanos JC y Caballoballo!
Espero que todo este bien con ustedes.

I have read some of their posts and they are quite rude and insulting of other forum members.
I have seen threads in which members have disagreements and differences of opinions, pero estos
dos charlatanes están comportándose demasiado rudos.

Que siguen participando después que se conducen como caballeros, con respeto y que contribuyen al
foro positivamente.

In all fairness my brothers, we should give them a chance if they are willing to comply with courtesy and respect to other forum members, and if they don’t pa’l carajo con ellos!

Suave!
Onile!

[JohnnyConga]

I have personally emailed Cimarron and politely explained to him about this forum, and how one should carry himself here.. I have not received any response as of yet....if u are offended by this guy, don't give him the benefit of an answer......."JC" Johnny Conga-CongaPlace Team....

[onile]

That's wise advice JC!
Will do!

Onile!