BataMbira - Spiro latest CD!

[tamboricua]

Hi Congaforum,

Hope all is well! For those interested in batá drumming, check out Michael Spiro and Michael Williams collaboration on:

BataMbira

Described as "a marriage between the sacred music of Cuba and Zimbabwe.

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio

[zaragemca]

Greeting,Tamboricua,I know that you have nothing to do with this 'marriage',but neither one of the individuals mentioned in the article have any jurisdiction or authority to marriage the sacred music of the Yorubas with anybody,the individuals which learn Bata are only giving the opportunity to play it,(if singing in Yoruba),under the jurisdiction of somebody which have the proper authority and deed knowledge of the subject,but as everything else, there is always those people which try to crossover their limited line or affairs...Dr Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1114703737

[ABAKUA]

Greeting,Tamboricua,I know that you have nothing to do with this 'marriage',but neither one of the individuals mentioned in the article have any jurisdiction or authority to marriage the sacred music of the Yorubas with anybody,the individuals which learn Bata are only giving the opportunity to play it,(if singing in Yoruba),under the jurisdiction of somebody which have the proper authority and deed knowledge of the subject,but as everything else, there is always those people which try to crossover their limited line or affairs...Dr Zaragemca

Ok, Im sorry but I cant keep this one to myself.

Who the h e l l do you think you are?
Pull your head out of your ass once and for all. I'm amongst quite a few others on this forum that are sick of your crap.
I have the Private Messages from quite a few members here saved on my computer to prove it.

This is collaboration merely another fusion of styles. It is not in religious context.
Merely another form of fusion of forms like what was done by ORISHAS mixing hip hop with yoruba culture, like Irakere did with funk and bata, like Chano did with Gillespie, and hundred of others also, its creating, growing, moving forward.

Plenty of people the world over are fluent in bata playing and study the culture, myself included.
I am not initiated as un Santo, but am frequently invited to gatherings, I pay my respects, frequently consult with a local Babalawo Ive known for over 10 yrs and have been invited to perform many a time in this genre with the associated cultural aspects of it.

I often mix elements los toques de bata with the various groups I play in, thus creating my own fusion or marriage.
Does this now mean I cannot do so and must stop because I have no jurisdiction or authority?
For once, get over yourself. You make me sick with your bullshit esotorical replies in every thread giving no assistance to the topic at hand but rather continuing to inflate your already overzealous ego which is so evident in all your posts in every thread.

Michael Spiro is a world wide recognised percussionist, I first heard of him when he did his work and studies with Muñequitos de Matanzas and Ignacio Berroa with Giovanni Hidalgo.

Michael Spiro is an internationally recognized percussionist, recording artist, and educator, known specifically for his work in the Latin music field. He has performed on hundreds of records, co-produced several instructional videos for Warner Bros. Publications (featuring such renowned artists as David Garibaldi, Changuito, Giovanni Hidalgo, and Ignacio Berroa), and produced seminal recordings in the Latin music genre, including Orquesta Batachanga, Grupo Bata-Ketu, and Grupo Ilu-Aña.

Mr. Spiro's recording and performing credits include such diverse artists as David Byrne, Changuito, Ella Fitzgerald, David Garibaldi, Gilberto Gil, Giovanni Hidalgo, Bobby Hutcherson, Dr. John, Bobby McFerrin, Andy Narell, Eddie Palmieri, Carlos Santana, Clark Terry, McCoy Tyner and Charlie Watts. In addition, he has recorded soundtracks to such major motion pictures as "Soapdish," "Henry and June," "Eddie Macon's Run," and "Dragon-The Life of Bruce Lee," and wrote several arrangements for the Tony Award winning Broadway show "BLAST!," which was released on video by PBS in 2002.

He currently resides in San Francisco, California where he is an integral part of the Bay Area music scene. He records and produces with groups throughout the West Coast, and is touring world-wide with his percussion trio "Talking Drums," which he co-leads with David Garibaldi and Jesus Diaz. In June of 1996, his own recording, "Bata-Ketu," was released to international critical acclaim, and debuted on the stage in 2002 with a performance grant from the National Endowment for the Arts. That same year he performed with his own group, "Ara Meji," at the 2002 Monterey Jazz Festival, where he received the Distinguished Achievement Award in Percussion. Most recently, in 2004 he received a Grammy nomination and a California Music Awards nomination for his work as both producer and artist on Mark Levine's Latin-Jazz release, "Isla."

Yeh, sounds like he has no authority or knowledge to release this new collaboration.

B. Michael Williams is Professor of Music and Director of Percussion Studies at Winthrop University in Rock Hill, South Carolina. Active as a performer and clinician in both symphonic and world music, Williams has performed with the Charlotte (NC) Symphony, Lansing (MI) Symphony, Brevard Music Center Festival Orchestra, and the Civic Orchestra of Chicago, and has appeared at four Percussive Arts Society International Conventions. He has written articles for Accent Magazine, South Carolina Musician, and Percussive Notes, and has made scholarly presentations on the music of John Cage and on African music at meetings of the College Music Society and Percussive Arts Society (PASIC).

Dr. Williams is Associate Editor (world percussion) for Percussive Notes magazine. A composer of innovative works for percussion, his "Four Solos for Frame Drums" was the first published composition for the medium. Additional works to his credit include "Three Shona Songs" and "Shona Celebration" for marimba ensemble, "Recital Suite for Djembe," "Tiriba Kan" for solo djembe, "Bodhran Dance," and "Another New Riq," all published by HoneyRock Publications. His book, Learning Mbira: A Beginning...,also published by HoneyRock, utilizes a unique tablature notation for the Zimbabwean mbira dzavadzimu and has been acclaimed as an effective tutorial method for the instrument.

Now THAT is a real Dr.

And you now call yourself Dr as of late... pfft. Completed your doctorette in music or percussion have you? You've graduated as Proffessor already?
Somehow I seriously doubt it, as you would not have this close minded bullshit view on everything related to percussion as has been seen on these boards.


Maybe you should get back to playing with your Santana cover band, and talk yourself up with them instead of with people who seem to be less egotistical than yourself and perhaps a bit more educated than what you think they are.

/.end rant.



Edited By ABAKUA on 1114736457

[tamboricua]

Greeting,Tamboricua,I know that you have nothing to do with this 'marriage',but neither one of the individuals mentioned in the article have any jurisdiction or authority to marriage the sacred music of the Yorubas with anybody,the individuals which learn Bata are only giving the opportunity to play it,(if singing in Yoruba),under the jurisdiction of somebody which have the proper authority and deed knowledge of the subject,but as everything else, there is always those people which try to crossover their limited line or affairs...Dr Zaragemca

Hi Zaragemca,

Hope all is well! Probably this description of a "marriage between the two styles" it's a little vague, and probably it was coined by a musicologist or something like that. The proper term might be "fusion" as ABAKUA described.

Regarding if this two cats have the proper authority to do this kind of collaboration trust me, they have it and with all due respect they did it very well!

I personally know Michael Spiro and he has paid his dues. Michael is truly an authority when talking about Afrocuban folkloric percussion. I'm sure he did have the blessing to do this kind of project from many of the elders and big leaguers of the Afrocuban folkloric percussion tradition. The preservers of that sacred batá lineage that was brought to Cuba from the Yorubas through Añabí and Atandá. I'm referring to people like: Francisco Aguabella,(Michael's mentor for eight years), Esteban "Chachá" Vega, Minini, Angel Bolaños, Familia Angarica, Jesús Pérez, Regino Jiménez, and the list can go on and on.

Now, can you please explain to us why do you consider Spiro and Williams did crossover the line?

Saludos,

Jorge Ginorio



Edited By tamboricua on 1114787578

[zaragemca]

Abakua,I don't care how many degrees anybody have this is the religion of my ancestor, not yours and I belong to it before this two guys even knew it exist ok,so you are the one which have to f. up you mouth and stay out of this.Notbody for studing this or writing a book have more authority than the people elderly who iniciated(us) the new generation in to this religion,and if there is any authoritation where it is said,who was the one who authorized this,who is the one supervising this,(since what time a performing related to yoruba drumming and singing in Yoruba doesn't required the supervision of the elderly in this subject..Michael been and authority in percussion,authority my as().Comming to my religion to do the same thing which have been done with averything else for greed and ego.Even the Bataleros know that they don't have authority to take upon themself any project without the supervision of the head of this religion,anywhere they could be.I have more authority than any Batalero and never abused it in doing,or using Yoruba singing or Bata playing..For aclaration of the history,Chano Pozo never did any Yoruba stuff with Guillespie,(his religion was Carabaly,(Abakua),not Yoruba..Irakere,did played with Bata,(for the purpose of giving some flavor to the music,but never engage in singing 'sacred Yoruba music and playing Bata' with the Band...The Orichas are speaking in Yoruba languages, But aren't playing 'sacred music' and singing in Yoruba. Playing or conducting studies with Ignacio Berroa,Hidalgo or Los Munequitos,DO NOT GIVE TO ANYBODY THE AUTHORIZATION TO SING YORUBA MUSIC AND PLAY BATA in A DIFFERENT WAY THAN WHAT HAVE BEEN STABLISHED.



Edited By zaragemca on 1114800466

[ABAKUA]

I have more authority than any Batalero

Get your head out of your ass.

Go talk yourself up to your Santana cover band. You contribute nothing to this place except your inflated ego.

Its a shame you are Cuban. Perhaps one of your ancestors can teach you some humility.

[zaragemca]

You stay out of it Argentinian this is not you culture and I have nothing to discussed with you in relation to my religion.Gerry Zaragemca.

[ABAKUA]

Stay out of it? I think not. Please continue to humour me with your ignorance.

[ralph]

Just out of curiousity, i have not heard the record. How is Spiro, and others, disrespecting the culture, is it because he is getting paid?
Or is is because he is an outsider?
Not Cuban?
I would like to know.
Peace

[zaragemca]

Welcome to the forum Ralph,the answer is for both reasons,but it is easy for the people which don't belong to the religion,or didn't talk with my ancestors in relation to the disrailed train which they forecast in this affairs long time ago, not to be aware about it. More of it in Africa the westerner would come to be entertained with drumming and dancing,the Yorubas told them many times that the singing and playing of the 'sacred music' was not for somebody to be entertained but for an specific purpose,(even when some people would be welcome if they were there when a ceremony was taking place),So notbady could use the Yoruba music to do experimentation,(they didn't even know the Batas at that time),until the new generation,(with a few exceptions including me), in Cuba started the train,(for the money).And I'm not talking about of serious recording of the music,(supervised by individuals with authority),or somebody just using an Bata for popular music,or a few song dedicated in spanish to some Orichas,(Babalu,Chango,etc),I'm talking about doing all this stuff without the proper authority and jurisdiction to do it..Dr.Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1114889916

[JohnnyConga]

Yo Guys ..OK LET'S CHILL on the name calling , that also serves NO PURPOSE for this forum, NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU MAY DISAGREE WITH SOMEONES OPINION OR HISTORY. WE ALL have a right to perform "secular" and "non-secular" music, whether we are IN the religion, OR NOT. Why? because it is done first with "respect" and with "righteousness", and done in the "proper" way. Michael Spiro is a member of the religion of Lucumi, and has been for many years. So he is in a position of "authority" when it comes to addressing the rhythmic content of the religion itself. He is a "Batelero" and "Olu Bata". The fusion of music is nothing new. What he did with Bata-Ketu, is phenominal and one of my all time best recordings of religious rhythms brought together from 2 different places....Brasil and Cuba.....Zara, I understand your "passion" in defending the "cultural" aspect of the religion, and I applaud you for that. Abakua I also understand your "passion" in defending the right to play this music as well as have it recorded, with or without "authority"....so where can we go from here in understanding, guys?...Can we come to a common bond here? We must "respect" one another, first,or the lines of communication will break down and fall away...we can ALL LEARN FROM EACH OTHER, but let's use a bit of "diplomacy" OK?......Vaya......me voy a rumbiar!....."JC" Johnny conga....

[zaragemca]

JC,there is a misunderstanding of this and it is for the reason of not belonging to the religion,this is not Rock,Jazz,or Salsa music that anybody could jump and do all experimentation its wants.There are rules which all,...and I repeat..all 'Bataleros in Cuba' know,.. Batalero,or OluBata,(ARE NOT THE AUTHORITY IN CHANGING THE WAY A BATA IS PLAYED IN THE YORUBA SACRED MUSIC),it is the responsability of anybody teaching Bata,to tell that person learning,(in this case the aftermentioned percussionists, to follow that),the Batalero have three persons over him with full 'Authority' and Jurisdiction in relation to Yoruba Religion Regulation,(including the playing of Sacred Music).This is not for somebody to become a Batalero and then play the Yoruba Sacred Music the way he wants or to do experimentations,or fusions,or whatever.I'm not talking this in here becouse I read a book,or I just like Batas,or I went to Cuba to study or to-Jam with Bataleros and Conga players,etc,etc.I'm a member of this religion when Mr.Spiro could not have notions of this religion in first place,my mother is somebody with 'Authority' in this religion and my Godfathers were people with 'Authority and Jurisdiction' in this religion,so this is a different dimention of knowledge..Dr.Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1115047923

[niall]

I have heard the record and it sounds fantastic.It a musical expriment that does nothing but honour the orishas and is played with so much respect for the tradition of bata that its hard to imagine how anyone would have a problem with it.Whats the differnce in afro cuba de mantanzas playing batarumba or bata in a jazz context which they are currently doing.Is it because they are cuban and therefore have a right?Its all about experimenting in a musical sense and you can be guaranteed that spiro got the blessings of both the orishas and his elders before he did it.I say congratulations on a great record Both this and bataketu are groundbreaking records.

[zaragemca]

Welcome Niall, the Batarumba,is not a music playing, 'Sacred Yoruba Music),neither this is a banning of playing Bata for jazz,or other popular music,my posting only involved the playing the 'Sacred Yoruba Music with Batas and singing in Yoruba.,(for which there is an stablished rule),Did you heard that any of the 'Authorities' in the Yoruba religion gave a blessing for this, who did it?,becouse there is nothing in the article mentioning it, how do you know that the Orichas were consulted for this?, who did the consultation?...As I said in my article,(Zaragemca's bongos.congas,timbales,and Bata),the Bata have been used in Cuba since 1930's to give special flavor to other music,( so it is nothing new),but not playing 'Yoruba Sacred Music with Bata and singing) out the contex, and if it involved mixing it with a different Tribe or religion,I could not see where the respect is going to come from.Dr.Zaragemca



Edited By zaragemca on 1115224634

[Richard Groff]

With all due respect to everyone participating in this discussion, I am not Santoria but find it offensive when people trample on so-called "ethnic" religious beliefs in their desire to participate in the "global music village". You can sleep in a garage, but it doesn't make you a car any more than you can learn a bunch of bata patterns and not making you a participant in the "sacred" music tradition of Cuba. I don't blame anyone from this religion being offended (or from Zimbabwe for that matter). No one (I think) is arguing that the patterns and sounds of sacred music shouldn't be influenced or maybe even "borrowed" in secular music (Bach, Palestrina, Monteverdi all composed "sacred" music played in secular concerts), but it is a little silly when somone learns something from someone else's culture and then promotes it as "authentic" or "sacred".

Unless I'm wrong, I'm not sure anyone here took issue with the music, but rather the silly and offensive marketing. I wonder how many Christians would scream if a pagan cook offered holy water and host as part of a stew in an authentic sacred Christian meal.