DIFFERENCE BETWEEN IFA and Santeria?

[Mr. Conga]

I have a fe questions regarding the topic, and i hope some are open to dicuss

WHAT is the difference between ifa and santeria?

has anyone had any negative spiritual experiences with santeria or ifa?....

[Rumba Rumbero]

i am not an expert on the subject, i think Thomas Altaman migh be more verse in this topic!

the main difference i have noticed between ifa, and santeria, is that one is purely african=ifa, and it does not use santos to syncronise or hide behind a santo, to hide or disguise an orisha spirit.

Ifa you worship African spirits, straight up basically, they call them by their name, and dont worship the idols, or santos.
Thay have an Oya, panteon spirits, oya, where they offer their ofrends to african spirits and spirits of the death, is an african thing

In santeria, they are thought to worship a Christian Catholic saint, with the name of the santo and then the orisha, is covered up to the beginning aprentice of the religion, for example if the initiate is catholic, or seems to have difficulty accepting the african aspect of the religion, the hard xore, they stick to teaching the early aprentice, to call the santo Santa Barbara, and as then chango, as they grow in the religion, and so on for the other orisha spirits.

Also in santeria they dont worship the spirits of the death, as much as they worship "santos"...

Also in santeria their highest god is one orisha for ifa is another. They name their the creator orisha one name for one religion, the othe another.
Santeria has been diluted, its roots are lucumi religion, and ifa.

Ifa is more hardcore, more blunt.

[Thomas Altmann]

By and large, we are talking about Yoruba religion here.The Yoruba is a group of peoples in West Africa, largely in Nigeria.

Yoruba religion has several facets. There is the worship of the collective spirits of the dead, called Egun, Eégun or Egúngun (the latter referring to their African masquerade cult, too). There is the herbal lore of magical and traditional medicine; the herbs are called ewé, the deity who presides over the potency and praparation of the plants and other natural ingredients is called Osanyin, Osayin, or Osain. In general, all of the deities are commonly referred to as orisha. The orisha worhip is another facet of Yoruba religion; its priests are called olórisha.

What is interesting for drummers, is the cult of Àyán (Añá), the deity (orisha) or spirit (ebora) that lives inside the consecrated drum.

And then there is Ifá, which is the – in a neutral sense – dogmatic corpus of the whole, because it is said that Ifá literally contains the entire knowledge of God (Olódumáre) as mediated by Orúnmila. Orúnmila is the deity (orisha) that reigns over Ifá.

Ifá, being the container of the universal wisdom, also serves as the superior oracle in Yoruba religion. The priests of Ifá are called babalawos, and Orúnmila is their patron deity. Ifá has also the most powerful rituals and medicine (including magical works). The saying goes that everything that there is, is in Ifá.

But the Orisha cult has its own oracle, too (the Merindinlogun or Diloggún), and both Ifá and Orisha work with plants and Osain. Egun and Orisha are also linked to each other; one might say that Orisha is based on Egun. (“Egun gives birth to Orisha.”)

Actually, no matter how much we try to find dividing lines between the distinct aspects of Yoruba religion, all of them are – theologically and ritually – interrelated with each other. They work together. They should, at least …

In Cuba, the Orisha cult came to be known as Regla de Ocha or, at first in a derogative, then vernacular way: Santería. Ocha came to Cuba earlier than Ifá. When we are talking about Santería, we generally refer to the Yoruba religion as practiced in Cuba. Another name for the Yoruba and their religion in Cuba is Lukumí (Lucumí). So when talking about Santería, some people do not differentiate between individual aspects of the religion, while others do. Some people are thinking of Ocha, Ifá, Egun, Osain and Añá as a whole, calling it either Santería, Regla de Ocha, Lukumí- or Yoruba religion, Ayoba or Ayorba, and so on.

It is important to notice that all the different aspects of the religion have changed on its forced journey from Africa to Cuba. While even in Africa the religion was anything but coherent and homogenous, in Cuba the drastically different social, climatic and geographical environment still made additonal adaptations inevitable. Some of the most significant modifications were: the syncretization of the orishas with the catholic saints (santos); the simultaneous Ocha initiation in at least five orishas at once; an obvious Ifá influence on Orisha divination, and the abolition of the Egungun cult in favour of Kardecian spiritism.

As a santero (the Spanish word for a male olórisha), I have had quite a few positive, as well as negative, experiences with either Ifá and Ocha. But probably these experiences do not compare to the issues that a religious outsider might have with the Lukumí religion. Animal sacrifice, trance possession, initiation and divination rituals, and magical practices, at first just have to displease people in the Western, Christian kulturkreis, and at the same time both sides may be advised to approach each other in respect and tolerance, the two building blocks of a civilized human coexistence.

Thomas Altmann

[Garvin]

Thomas,

That was the best, most concise explanation I've read online, and I've looked a lot for a distilled version in order to explain at workshops etc... Thanks for your hard work and ability to communicate something so complex in such a direct way. I know there are tons of details and tangents that we could devote pages to, but what a great jumping off point.

Where's Zaragemca when you need him

[Thomas Altmann]

Thank you so much for your response, Garvin. It really made me happy (no better word for it) to read it.

By the way, in case that there be any more questions from the forum; I'll be away until noon on Sunday, so please be patient with my answers.

Where's Zaragemca when you need him

You may say what you want; but this man has made history (in this forum). His online personality has made him unforgettable

Is Facundo still around? I reckon he must be a babalawo now.

Thomas

[JohnnyConga]

Thomas 'nailed it!"...