being a band leader

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being a band leader

Postby Herbal » Wed Feb 02, 2011 2:21 am

How do you guys deal with substance abuse? How many chances do you give people? Why is it that the most talented are commonly the most addicted? Are you heavy handed? I hear I am an asshole quite often, but I am working and they keep coming back for jobs. It sucks when you have to fire a friend. I kinda wish it was still unionized and there was health care that would cover rehab.

I usually give people a second chance, but I can only take so much. I feel bad when people talk about rent, food, kids, etc, but if that is so important, why do they get fucked up at work? It is hard when free alcohol is part of the pay, but I am never drunk or nodding off on stage. I can't invest money in demos and promos if I am not sure these people are going to still have a drivers license, not be locked up, or not going to be able to perform in top shape.

I have lived all over the USA and it seems to be the same everywhere. It is still a job, any other place would fire people if they came to work hammered or got hammered at work. It sucks for the rest of the band when I can't use them until we can replace that main player, but it is my reputation and name.

I guess I am, more or less, just venting. I feel unappreciated and used at times. I do have my main act where the most anyone does is puff a little and no drinking, but I just had to break up one that I did about 50 shows with in the last year. It breaks my heart - it is like losing a long time girlfriend.
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Re: being a band leader

Postby willie55 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 12:44 pm

my main reason to stop playing with bands, was the alcohol and drugs and smoking, getting free booze as part of the payment never helped. and like you said the talented ones were the most addicted to all 3. 2 of my band members have died, one was on meth, the other alcohol, and these guys were in there late 50's, Glen and Rick R.I.P..I have been clean since 1984, and they always asked how do i do it, not drinking or partying, you got to just do it..
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Re: being a band leader

Postby windhorse » Wed Feb 02, 2011 4:18 pm

I'm surrounded by it, and it's actually one of the reasons that I find myself in the band leadership position. Sort of by default. Who's the most together and able to accept responsibility? The guy that isn't the stoned one all the time. Who is the most capable communicator who isn't afraid to talk to the next possible gig contact?
I have always been a leader, and it sort of took a life-time of experience to realize it. Never thought of myself as "the leader". I don't know the most music. I'm not the best player. But, I listen to everybody. I make time for what they say, what they want, the sound they like,, and the little things that pass by them that matters in the long run..
Do you have a little foresight and care about people? Rather be straight than wasted? Maybe you'll find yourself in the leadership position too! Somebody has got to do it.
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Re: being a band leader

Postby niallgregory » Wed Feb 02, 2011 5:14 pm

An interesting topic folks . I like to have a pint while doing a gig ( sometimes ) . Other times i wont bother , some of the guys i play with also smoke before playing , its not an issue though . Nobody is drunk or that stoned that it gets in the way of the gig . Everyone is a professional and knows better than to do anything to mess up the gig .
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Re: being a band leader

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:45 pm

Actually this is two topics in one. (1) Drinking (or taking in other drugs) and playing, and (2) taking up the leadership of a band, or any kind of organisation for the matter.

(1) I used to drink up to 5 or 6 glasses of beer in one evening when I was young. The other guys in the band served themselves more extensively, so while I made sure I could still play well, I used to get annoyed by their irresponsibility that made my work even harder. I learned that whatever any individual musician needs to do the best job he/she can, he is self-resonsible for that. Whether it takes my fellow musician to do a walk in the park, a mile of jogging, a new girl each night, or a joint or half a bottle of booze, it shouldn't matter to me.

Fact is, in most cases, stoned musicians don't play better but worse, not to mention the damage he/she does to him/herself.

I stopped drinking after I got my driving license and had to drive to and from the gig myself. I also found out that the actual creative process is more successful and more enjoyable when I'm sober, especially when I have to read.

I think that everybody should be clear whether he/she really wants to belong to a band of musicians who are dedicated to the art and find their joy in approximating perfection, or rather a bunch of nice guys that enjoy getting high and having fun together, all the while fooling around on some noise-producing gadgets. I prefer making music with the first species of people, but it can be great to spend a night in a bar with the second. Some artists would not necessarily make my favourite drinking companions; but certainly most people who are fun seekers in the first place are simply wrong in a musical organisation. They have to decide.

Evidently, I tend to belong to the kind of people who sooner or later prove to be assholes in the eyes of someone who just wants to have a good time and has mostly given up the idea of making great music. The point that such a person is missing is that it is him who is in the wrong place, and it is him who actually spoils the true objective of the group, making my life and my work harder and preventing me from having my kind of "fun". It doesn't fit, simply as that.

(2) There will always be people who are unable to recognize the obvious facts and take the consequences. If a band doesn't really work as well as it could because I'm in it, I feel I should find a band that is better off with my talents and no longer stand in the way of the other. It's better for the first band, better for the second, and better for me. Some people are unable to see that. It is the unpleasant task of a leader to do what's necessary and make the respective decisions, also on behalf of that someone who for some reason is not able to do this for himself. I bet every musician has been fired from a band or rejected after an audition at least once in his life. It's nothing that is to be regarded a death sentence. It is part of the business.

I have been a bandleader in a few instances. I don't do it anymore. I can't. I see the facts, and I take the consequences: I'm not a born leader. I might be a musical inspirator, and I might carry great ideas, too; but I definitely get problems with people. I don't know why, but the people in the band use to misunderstand my leadership as an attempt to enact social power and start to rebel before I got my business started. Talking of business: I dislike fellow musicians to become extra kind because they reckon they might get a sub job one day; I hate talking with agents and managers ("Do you by chance also have a black girl singer working with the band?") and I have a real problem with the business side of the art in general. As a result, I contract one job and feel raped where others would contract five with a smiling face. Then I get to this one job with my band and take care of everything up to the very moment the first number is counted off. It doesn't come easy to me. It makes me sick. It prevents me from doing a good job at the ultimate purpose of the whole business: Playing good music.

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Re: being a band leader

Postby windhorse » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:43 pm

Good post by Thomas!
Would like to add,
it takes all types! Not everyone can be the leader. Not everyone is happy in the leadership role. There shouldn't be any judgement attached to what position your part is in the band. It's just as important overall to play the solo part, sing, percussion, melodic instrument, leader, paperwork guy.. It takes all of us! And if everyone felt the same way, then we'd be fighting for the same parts. It's important we gravitate naturally into the best position for the band's sound and happiness for its members and audiences.
And if you sound good, it shouldn't matter to the rest of us - your particular substance preferences.. :D
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Re: being a band leader

Postby JohnnyConga » Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:54 pm

In my experience as a band leader for over 20 years, I have learned that you have to wear many hats, here they are

Mental Health Worker(tied in with Drug counselor as I used to be both in New York city way before I became a band leader)
Drug Counselor
Gang Interventionist(also a job I had in NYC)
Judge and Jury(having to make hiring and firing decisions)
Businessman
Marketeer
Promoter
Musical director
Consultant
Confidant
and Friend...... anyone else?.....hahahahahahaaha.....but I do enjoy being a leader of a band, and the bands that I have had, I had no real problems with ,as everyone had mad respect for each other and were also good friends.
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Re: being a band leader

Postby Herbal » Wed Feb 02, 2011 10:35 pm

I got hurt and was on Social Security through my late 20's and most of my 30's. I had moved to a new area during that time and didn't know anyone so I had to start from the bottom, again. I started playing the guitar around, did that for a couple of years, but when I started beating the congas again all kinds of work started popping up. I ran with it.

I put together a few acts with people from different projects I was playing with, I put people together who I felt would work well as a group. Heck, there is a 31 year difference between the oldest and youngest in one of the acts, the most successful of them all.

I do all of the bookings, promos, dealing with the legals, making sure everyone has what they need, etc and do not take near what an agent and/or manager would take. I can do all of that from home when my health isn't holding up. Why pay someone to do it all for you if you can do it yourself, right? All my musicians have to do is show up and play. I supply everything accept their instruments, though I let the one old cat play my 1970 Martin D35 because it sounds sooooooo good on the songs that need that fat bottom.

I set up a competition I host every week at one place and do it once a month in a couple of other towns as well. It is a good way to meet new musicians and it can be a lot of fun. This was a good idea - it has really helped my wallet.

This is all I have. I lived with the bare basics for years while I rehabilitated. I work too damn hard for people to ruin it for me. When things go bad, it is all I can think about. I never can remember the good - the bad always sticks in my head. I feel used, cheated, and disrespected when people get fucked up and can't hold it together. It took ten years of rehab to be able to get back to where I am today.

I don't care what the people do on their own time, but when you work for me you need to be sober enough during those 2 - 5 hours to hold it together. When you can't remember the changes, words, the chords, etc, it is a problem. I am no angel but I am a professional and I expect the same from the people who work with me. If one person is repeatedly too intoxicated to perform well by the 3rd and/or 4th set, it isn't fair to the rest of the people I hired or to me. I don't care if you suck off goats while having a hooker blow coke up your ass on your own time, just don't get so fucked up you can't play your best for that short time I hire you to be on stage.

Thanks guys,
Tony
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Re: being a band leader

Postby Herbal » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:49 am

I should add -

I drink beer, but not enough to be legally intoxicated since I have to drive. I use Morphine, Oxycontin, and Oxycodone when I am having an attack (never long enough to get a physical dependence) so I can make it to and through the shows. I use medical marijuana, it has been a God send.

I tell you this so you can see I am no prude. If I abuse any of it, I can not play to the best of my abilities and that is not fair to the other players, the people paying to hear us, or the people paying us to play.

All I ask is for you to be able to play your parts and not be so wasted you can't get yourself home if you haven't made arrangements to stay somewhere close. Being wasted and driving is just as bad as messing up the show from being drunk/doped up/whatever. If I put a bunch of money into demos and promos and you get a DWI and can't get to the shows because you live in another city, that is a problem.

Sure, it is fun and should be, but it is work. You would get fired from any other type of job if you were too intoxicated to do what you were hired to do.

Am I a dick? I don't know, but most of the people love working with/for me. The only ones who have a problem are the ones who can't hold up their end.

I was supposed to meet with the guy who inspired this topic tonight, and surprise - he is too drunk to drive to the designated meeting area (about an hour drive for each of us). It is a real shame - this guy has so much natural talent. He didn't fuck it up for just him, he fucked it up for everyone in the act. The bassist just got a new rig and I can't use him until we find another guitarist who can sing a bit, we need that second guitar for what we are playing and he sang most of the songs. I filled all the dates with another one of my acts, but that doesn't help the other people who are now out of work.

I wish I could post a vid for you to see - it is the guy I am talking about, me, and a guy who was one of my heroes until I got hired to back him. They smoked greeners and things were going to bad I ended up playing solo guitar and singing to do the last set by myself (when I hadn't played guitar in like a year). It was so humiliating. I quit, didn't do the studio work, or go on tour with them and it fell apart for them. My buddy got better for a couple of months, after I didn't hire him for a month, but now it is worse than ever.

We even tried an intervention at one point.

I am sad.
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Re: being a band leader

Postby windhorse » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:11 am

I remember seeing Steppenwolf in a bar once. I couldn't believe it when I heard that they were playing! It was well after their heyday some time in the late 80s. Sure enough it was the real deal, but I have never been so disappointed by a music act in my life! The pianist was wasted! He kept falling all over the keyboard and actually fell off the stage at one point. When I was in my teens I guess I thought it was cool that Jimmy Hendrix, Jim Morrison, and many of childhood idols had been such heavy drug users. But when I saw that guy falling off of his stool, and the rest of the band covering for him, the cold hard reality of "the show must go on" became apparent.
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Re: being a band leader

Postby elrayo » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:30 pm

Great Thread!

Man! I'd love to pay my bills working in a band.. Like you said, it's all about free drinks and food these days..
I do have a couple of glasses of wine to loosen me up, and that's when I'm at my best , especialy playing the
religious stuff , but I've noticed a serious problem when I drink more than that! I get sloppy and my playing really sucks!

I'd definitly get rid of alchahol alltogether if I had a paying gig, and the band leader requested it.. It's a no brainer for me.
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Re: being a band leader

Postby niallgregory » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:51 pm

Ive had the luck and pleasure of playing some really great gigs in front of large paying audiences who paid good money to see the group and hear the music . Under no circumstances would you get " drunk " before " a gig , i personally wouldnt even have one beer before we play . Afterwards is a different matter entirely :D i often have a few to many ( im Irish afterall ) . But anyone who gets drunk and cant perform is a tool ..
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Re: being a band leader

Postby Thomas Altmann » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:09 pm

Officially, Añá forbids sworn batá drummers to drink while "on duty". Fact is, in Havana most batá drummers use to drink (at least) a bit during ceremonies "to loosen up".

I love to have a glass of wine or two at times, especially accompanying a nice Mediterranean meal (like the ratatouille I made today). However, even hours before a gig, wine is a big NO for me, because it settles me down to much; I can't get off in a musical situation any more. It's like the stuff is putting me to bed, especially red wine. But I know musicians who actually get better after having some wine. It's all a matter of the individual physical constitution.

I don't know how Charlie Parker might have played, if he had not indulged as much as he did.

An interviewer once asked Dexter Gordon: "How come you can drink so much and still play that great?"

D.G.: "I practice drunk, too."

I suppose, most of you know this anecdote; so I just told it for all the others.

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Re: being a band leader

Postby Dangler » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:39 pm

Thomas Altmann wrote:I don't know how Charlie Parker might have played, if he had not indulged as much as he did.


Thomas

I just watched the PBS Jazz documentary again.The heroin use by Parker and the artists inspired by Parker and his binges on the drug,was a dark time for alot of incredible jazz musicians.Dizzy had enough of the man whom he called his heartbeat,and refused to work with him anymore because of his heroin use. Milt Jackson and his Modern Jazz Quartet took great pride in being clean and sober and showing others that being wasted was not cool or neccesary for making great music .

Playing Music can be enjoyed in a number of ways,and I think its important for all involved to clearly define what they want out of it long-term and what type of musicians/people you want to play/not play with.
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Re: being a band leader

Postby Chupacabra » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:24 pm

I personally have very little experience playing in front of people. There might have been two or three occasions in a local music hall or community center, and certainly were not a paying gigs! I just thought I would state that first.

Everybody has a different method of coping with unpleasant emotions, circumstances, situations etc. A lot of people use intoxicants, some to the point that it goes well beyond the threshold of coping until it becomes a problem for other people. Been there, done that. In the case of stage performers (musicians, comedians, actors, clowns, strippers etc etc) there is one common circumstance many will experience at some point in their career and that is stage fright. There have been some performers I've heard and read about who suffered from terrible stage fright and their coping mechanism was to get wasted enough to be able to face the audience. To the detriment of the performance, unfortunately. Catch them in the studio and that is where the magic happens.

As JC mentioned, there are a lot of different facets to being a band leader. Bigger the band, bigger the headaches!
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