A new home for congaplace

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A new home for congaplace

Postby martingoodson » Sun Nov 27, 2022 9:48 am

[edited March 2023] I'm going to kill the subreddit I proposed here. It was a failed experiment and there is already a relevant subreddit at https://www.reddit.com/r/AfroCuban [/edit]

This was definitively the best forum on latin percussion on the internet. I have recently tried to find information on two topics: 'how to avoid split fingers when playing congas' and 'best budget mics for congas' and the best source of information is still congaplace, even though it has not been active for the last 5 years.

The facebook groups that many people seem to have moved to did not appear in my google searches. Facebook doesn't want people to be able to search old threads - they want constant 'engagement' so they can make money from adverts. It just isn't the right place for a community like this.

Facebook is a dead end. And Congaplace is technically obsolete - it's not possible to post video, which is one of the best ways to communicate about percussion.

There needs to be a replacement. I think it should be reddit. It has modern forum software and all the functionality we need. I've made a new community called 'congaplace' :

https://www.reddit.com/r/congaplace/

I've made two posts asking for help with my queries 'how to avoid split fingers when playing congas' and 'best budget mics for congas'. Please head over to https://www.reddit.com/r/congaplace/ and help answer my questions!

Or post about anything on your mind: music recommendations, quinto variations, Youtube clips, technical discussions on clave, anything!

I'll keep posting in there - please join me! We just need to build the first ten good threads and we'll be off to a good start.
Last edited by martingoodson on Sat Mar 04, 2023 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby martingoodson » Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:56 am

Btw I’m open to suggestions on running the Reddit community, adding moderators etc. Let me know if you’d like to be involved.
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby Greensail » Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:41 am

Hi Martin. I agree with you on most points. Congaplace has been fairly silent for the last few years but wow! - the wealth of information is remarkable. That said I think I have been through most of the posts of interest to me but that has taken years. There are a few of us that remain here. I followed your link but it won't let me view without installing the app. Will consider but I'm a bit reluctant. Admittedly, I don't know anything about reddit. And I've successfully avoided Facebook for years.

That said, I cannot help with split fingers as I have never experienced this. Technique is key along with time to build up calluses and toughen the skin. One of the things I have done over the years has been to practice playing softly, using almost entirely wrist with as little arm motion as possible. Not only does this save your hands, but, over time, it GREATLY improves your technique. I feel it's one of the "secrets to my success". In fact, as you improve, it's possible to play fairly loud with very little arm, moving the hand only 2-3 inches.

Additionally you mention mics. I use senheiser 604's, one for each drum. Not really budget at about $100 each but i have them for about 5 years and they have served me well. Because of their size and weight, they easily attach to the drum so no extra mic stands to deal with. The mics are fed into a small mixer that I control and then run a single line into the band's mixer. In most gigs, this allows me to play "normally" without having to wail away in order to be heard in the mix. Hope that helps.
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby jorge » Tue Nov 29, 2022 4:21 am

I tried the reddit site, but you have to open a reddit account and I don't know anything about reddit, who owns it, how and to whom they monetize, sell or share your data, so I didn't do it.

Split fingers: Where do you live? Splitting skin on your fingers is usually due to the skin drying out and becoming weaker to resist the physical forces of hitting the drum. Cold weather causes dry air indoors so humidify your home, avoid tiny splits extending by reinforcing skin with tape or bandaids as soon as you see the split starting, use a tiny bit of triple antibiotic ointment a couple of times if it even starts to hurt or get infected, use moisturizing skin lotion a few times a day, and wear gloves outside. That will help. I think split skin on fingers from playing congas, bongo, bata etc is very rare in Cuba and other tropical places, but I haven't seen data on that or done a large survey.

For mics, I like the sound of a Shure SM57 on congas but you have to mount it securely on a floor stand. I agree with Greensail that Sennheiser 604s sound pretty good also (although not better than the 57s), but they are really light and small, have their own mount, and don't bounce much when mounted on the congas and save you having to carry stands around, losing the mic clips etc. I have tried a variety of mics including Earthworks, Senn 904, Shure SM98, and a few others but none sound significantly better than the SM57.

Mixing down and balancing multiple mics with a small mixer is good, allows you to control your sound a little more directly (if you have a good monitor mix and can mix and play at the same time) but introduces an added layer of complication and potential point of failure. For small gigs that even require a mic, you can usually use 1 floor standing SM57 well placed to balance the tumba, conga and quinto.
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby martingoodson » Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:26 pm

Greensail wrote:I followed your link but it won't let me view without installing the app. Will consider but I'm a bit reluctant.


Ah yes that’s a good point. Reddit does try hard to get you to download the app. Try this link instead, which should allow you to view it without signing up: https://old.reddit.com/r/congaplace/

It may be necessary to rethink the use of Reddit if it’s too annoying. It is a very good forum site though. And it’s free to run.

Thanks for the answers to my questions. I'm very tempted by those senheisers!
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby martingoodson » Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:11 pm

jorge wrote:I tried the reddit site, but you have to open a reddit account and I don't know anything about reddit, who owns it, how and to whom they monetize, sell or share your data, so I didn't do it.

Thanks. Hope the other link works better for you.

Split fingers: Where do you live? Splitting skin on your fingers is usually due to the skin drying out and becoming weaker to resist the physical forces of hitting the drum.


I think you might be right. I’m in the uk and it’s winter now.

Thanks also for the tips on mics I have a single sm57 but I quite like the idea of being able to change from a 3 conga to a 4 conga set up from song to song. I think it might need to be clipons.
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby martingoodson » Tue Nov 29, 2022 8:30 pm

An alternative to Reddit is to make a self-hosted discourse https://www.discourse.org/.

This is all open-source and it would be more transparent about privacy etc. if there is enough interest I can look into it. It would cost about $5 per month and I can cover it.

Please anyone reply if they would be interested in something like this.
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby jorge » Wed Nov 30, 2022 3:32 am

When using multiple mics on multiple sound sources, be careful to follow the 3:1 rule of mic placement. When you have one mic a certain distance from the conga, all other mics need to be more than 3 times that distance from that conga to prevent strange phase interference between the 2 mics. This means close micing if you are micing 2 or more congas. It is only approximate since a conga head is not a point source and not all of the mics will be at the same gain level.
https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-dictionary/3-1-rule

Can you post on reddit without opening an account?
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby martingoodson » Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:46 am

Thank you Jorge that’s very helpful. I hadn’t heard of the 3:1 rule of mic placement before.

On Reddit you have to have an account to post but I think that’s a good thing. You don’t really want people posting anonymously because you wouldn’t be able to ban anyone. All forums eventually become victims to annoying people who need to be banned. Congaplace is no exception to that - and you also need an account to post here.
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby Thomas Altmann » Wed Nov 30, 2022 11:40 am

Re: split fingers -

your hands are normally softened by the natural moisture effected by sweat secretion. Some people have more, some less sweaty hands. The older I get, the dryer my hands are. Not sure if that has also been caused by conga drumming to a degree.

As jorge mentioned, the application of a moisturizing ointment will help. Some of the lotions you might decide to use contain urea, which is pretty effective. Some old-school congueros use their own urine to achieve the same effect; Changuito mentions that in one of his videos. Urine is nothing else but concentrated sweat, and personally, I don't find anything disgusting or dirty about applying a few drops on my palms, which usually soaks into the skin in no time. Then I annoint my hands with Weleda Skin Food (quite expensive, though), and I'm ready to play for hours without hurting my hands in any way. In my experience, this is a really reliable method. However, for reasons of hygiene you may avoid shaking other people's hands after the treatment.

Another experience I made is that, after drinking too much coffee or alcoholic beverages over an extended period of time, my skin, including my palms, seems to dry out from inside. I'm more of a tea drinker, anyway; so it's rather easy for me to avoid coffee, and alcohol is not a problem for me.

Thomas
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby martingoodson » Wed Nov 30, 2022 9:13 pm

Thanks Thomas, I do use a 10% urea hand lotion but it seems to not be enough. I guess I’m not consistent enough in using it.

Did you have any thoughts about a different home for this forum btw?
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby Greensail » Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:03 am

I forgot to mention in my previous post but strongly agree with others about moisturizer on the hands. I feel like my hands are chronically dry and use a good quality lotion regularly. Cocoa butter works pretty well also. Additionally, I always have palm oil nearby for the heads and to apply, I usually rub some on my hands and the "play it into the heads" along with rubbing to distribute evenly - kind of a 2 for 1.

One additional thought - given the paucity of people here, would moving to another forum change the level of interest? Could it be that we simply need some advertising to inform others of the incredible wealth of knowledge and information here which would likely be lost with a move?
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby martingoodson » Thu Dec 01, 2022 8:13 am

Greensail wrote:One additional thought - given the paucity of people here, would moving to another forum change the level of interest? Could it be that we simply need some advertising to inform others of the incredible wealth of knowledge and information here which would likely be lost with a move?


Participating in a living forum is different to reading the thoughts of people from ten years ago. I don't think congaplace will ever revive because the software is obsolete and you can't post video clips. I don't know who runs the forum, do you? Perhaps they will have a view on this.

Anyway, even with just 10 prolific members a new forum could probably build up a good body of conversation and knowledge (and we can post links to older discussions on congaplace if relevant). We already have skin splits and conga mics covered!
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby Thomas Altmann » Thu Dec 01, 2022 10:19 am

Greensail wrote:Cocoa butter works pretty well also. Additionally, I always have palm oil nearby for the heads and to apply, I usually rub some on my hands and the "play it into the heads" along with rubbing to distribute evenly - kind of a 2 for 1.


I've tried cocoa butter, but it didn't work for me, so obviously different people have different skin conditions. Wondering what the reason could be, I figured out that cocoa butter kind of waterprotected my palms, substituting grease for natural moisture, but that's a layman's theory. Also, it wasn't good for my nails and nail beds.

Moreover, what you consider an additional asset, appears to me as undesirable: The drum heads are becoming a bit greasy with the time, anyway; with any sort of ointment on your hands, this process is intensified, resulting in a rubber-like consistence of the heads too soon. By the same token, I know that some drum companies use a skin softener, whatever that is, and while most drummers appreciate this, I am one of those who don't. A "reasonable" content of fat is certainly good, but the residues of my hand ointment are too much. I have already used soap and lukewarm water to wipe the skins of my congas.

martingoodson wrote:Did you have any thoughts about a different home for this forum btw?


I'm afraid I disagree with you on the pinned or sticky threads on top being a repelling feature of the forum. It may contribute to, or testify, the general lack of interest and care that is not only demonstrated by the moderators, but also by potential newcomers as well as many of the old war horses who used to post here. Considering the declining number of young conga drum students, there may not be as many newcomers as years ago, anyway, and they may be inclined to other topics, other types of music, and other mediums of communication. Oldtimers are perhaps tired of sharing perspectives that have become undisputible normalcy for them. And no matter what we think of it, Facebook has certainly killed more than one oldfashioned newsgroup. My guess is that some things just come to an end at some time, and although a lot of these things have been good things, we have to come to terms with that fact. Otherwise we would be beating a dead horse.

I think I remember some of the moderators. Laurent Lamy in France may have been the founder of the forum. But you know what? Even though nobody seems to care about updating or managing it, they still keep it online, and I suppose they even pay for it. So we still have the chance to utilize it, and we do, as your thread has shown. The question is: Why don't we utilize it as much as we used to in the past? Has the necessity diminished? Have the general modes and preferences of communication changed in favour of the FB formate? Are the topics of the busiest posters better addressed over there? As you might read between my lines, I don't actually believe that moving the forum would solve the problem. And I agree with the statement that the history of this forum has almost grown into an encylopedia of percussion. How could you effectively move that?

Nonetheless I appreciate your effort to entertain this worldwide correspondence on our passion and profession and keep it alive. I wish, however, that your efforts are not wasted.

Thomas
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Re: A new home for congaplace

Postby scavard » Fri Dec 02, 2022 2:42 pm

martingoodson wrote:There needs to be a replacement. I think it should be reddit. It has modern forum software and all the functionality we need. I've made a new community called 'congaplace' :

https://www.reddit.com/r/congaplace/


I use reddit and am a part of the afro-cuban community there https://www.reddit.com/r/AfroCuban/ which may be something similar to what you want to achieve. It has 1000 users already and is quite active. I posted there a few times and got useful information out of it, so it works for me there as well. I really enjoy when someone is actively trying to keep these music topics going. I like to read most of the things related to our art even though I don't participate as much.
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